Lasar taking deposits on no-back spring kits

[FlyingScot]

FYI - Lasar is now taking deposits on no-back spring kits. They are currently quoting a 32 week lead-time, the clock for which starts after they receive 45 deposits. 

https://lasar.com/hardware-springs/eaton-no-back-clutch-spring-50-deposit

[toto]

ETA:  What I just asked makes zero sense, since LASAR is a MSC.  Just ignore me

 

[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, toto said:

Can we order these directly, or they have to be ordered by an MSC?

Unless something has changed, LASAR is an MSC.

[toto]

Just now, Fly Boomer said:

Unledd something has changed, LASAR is an MSC.

Yeah, I tried to self-correct before suffering the indignity of a reply

 

[Fly Boomer]

Just now, toto said:

Yeah, I tried to self-correct before suffering the indignity of a reply

 

Man, you were fast -- 2 seconds after I pulled the trigger, I corrected by spelling.

[PT20J]

From LASAR website:

LASAR INC is pleased to return to market the crucial Eaton "no-back" clutch spring, as specified in Mooney SB M20-282. Initial quantities are limited with a manufacturing lead time of 32 weeks. To celebrate, we're offering this part at a reduced rate through the end of the year!  Full part price as of January 1, 2025 is $2995.00, but our current pricing is $2575.00 each.   Take advantage of the savings and secure your order by submitting your $1250.00 deposit today, the remaining balance of $1325.00 will be due when the part is ready to ship to you!

[toto]

2 minutes ago, PT20J said:

From LASAR website:

LASAR INC is pleased to return to market the crucial Eaton "no-back" clutch spring, as specified in Mooney SB M20-282. Initial quantities are limited with a manufacturing lead time of 32 weeks. To celebrate, we're offering this part at a reduced rate through the end of the year!  Full part price as of January 1, 2025 is $2995.00, but our current pricing is $2575.00 each.   Take advantage of the savings and secure your order by submitting your $1250.00 deposit today, the remaining balance of $1325.00 will be due when the part is ready to ship to you!

Whoa

 

[Schllc]

Reach around not included. 

[hammdo]

Well, at least they will be available…

-Don

[toto]

Cross link to the LASAR post ..

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/49787-no-back-clutch-spring-m20-282-0001-eaton-kit-update-good-news/

[EricJ]

They sure are proud of their stuff.

 

[PT20J]

LASAR needs them if they are going to maintain their actuator overhaul capability. Maybe they are having to front a big setup charge. Or, maybe they are just marking them up a lot because they may be the only source. Or, maybe the factory will get a bunch from the order and other MSCs will be able to order with better prices. And, is the deposit refundable if the delivery slips by a lot? A lot of questions to answer before plunking down that much money.

[MikeOH]

BWA HA HA HA HA!!!  They've got some moxie to call this 'deal' good news!

In what world does a SINGLE piece of formed and tempered wire, in a lot size of 45, represent $115,875??? (And, that's at the 'bargain' introductory price!)

Sorry there is just NO way I can believe an implied set-up charge that expensive can be justified for such a simple part.  This is a 'bend over and take it' because we can price!

Glad I've got the Duke's actuator....can't wait to see LASER's price for the gears

[802flyer]

BWA HA HA HA HA!!!  They've got some moxie to call this 'deal' good news!
In what world does a SINGLE piece of formed and tempered wire, in a lot size of 45, represent $115,875??? (And, that's at the 'bargain' introductory price!)
Sorry there is just NO way I can believe an implied set-up charge that expensive can be justified for such a simple part.  This is a 'bend over and take it' because we can price!
Glad I've got the Duke's actuator....can't wait to see LASER's price for the gears

Now I feel like I’m getting a screaming deal on my intake duct for only $600


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[Fritz1]

replacing or not replacing the NBS has been discussed ad infinitum, glad they are available at any price since the ones that make a rattling noise need to be replaced asap

[Ragsf15e]

9 hours ago, 802flyer said:

Now I feel like I’m getting a screaming deal on my intake duct for only $600


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Only if it actually shows up… didn’t we order those (and put down $$) last December?

[802flyer]

Only if it actually shows up… didn’t we order those (and put down $$) last December?

I seem to remember being told they’d sometime around this December, so hadn’t lost hope yet.


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[Todd1]

It’s probably $10 for the spring. The remainder of the $2985 balance is mostly insurance. I hate to say it but unless  you’ve been involved in producing an STC or a PMA you wouldn’t believe it. Insurance to produce that part could easily run 40k per year. If one fails or is suspected to fail and a gear up happens you know who is getting sued. 
we have shelves a few STCs that would be safety enhancement ,ents, fairly cheap to produce. But wouldn’t be able to sell them at the price required to barely cover the insurance of it. 

[MikeOH]

10 minutes ago, Todd1 said:

It’s probably $10 for the spring. The remainder of the $2985 balance is mostly insurance. I hate to say it but unless  you’ve been involved in producing an STC or a PMA you wouldn’t believe it. Insurance to produce that part could easily run 40k per year. If one fails or is suspected to fail and a gear up happens you know who is getting sued. 
we have shelves a few STCs that would be safety enhancement ,ents, fairly cheap to produce. But wouldn’t be able to sell them at the price required to barely cover the insurance of it. 

Interesting rationalization/justification.  It implies that companies have to carry separate product liability policies for each and every product.  The only experience I have is with a SINGLE products' liability policy which covers ALL the products the company produces; the premium is spread across many products and their risks as a whole.  I certainly could see a $40K annual premium for that policy.  I struggle that EACH product is going to require a $40K annual premium policy.  Surely LASAR markets many products that they could be sued for!  No way they're paying for that many $40K premiums!

[toto]

With all the hemming and hawing over the NBS, I think the real business opportunity here is a manual extension that doesn’t break when the NBS breaks. I’ll buy that STC. 

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, Todd1 said:

It’s probably $10 for the spring. The remainder of the $2985 balance is mostly insurance. I hate to say it but unless  you’ve been involved in producing an STC or a PMA you wouldn’t believe it. Insurance to produce that part could easily run 40k per year. If one fails or is suspected to fail and a gear up happens you know who is getting sued. 
we have shelves a few STCs that would be safety enhancement ,ents, fairly cheap to produce. But wouldn’t be able to sell them at the price required to barely cover the insurance of it. 

 

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

Interesting rationalization/justification.  It implies that companies have to carry separate product liability policies for each and every product.  The only experience I have is with a SINGLE products' liability policy which covers ALL the products the company produces; the premium is spread across many products and their risks as a whole.  I certainly could see a $40K annual premium for that policy.  I struggle that EACH product is going to require a $40K annual premium policy.  Surely LASAR markets many products that they could be sued for!  No way they're paying for that many $40K premiums!

Can someone definitively clarify:

• Is Lasar going to stock and sell NBS made by (or sourced by) Eaton?  (marked as made by Eaton)

OR

• Is Lasar going to commission manufacture of NBS using Mooney? Eaton? design/material/heat treatment procedures, etc?  (marked as a Lasar brand equivalent)

Because if it is the former, it is no different than Lasar selling Champion spark plugs.  If the plug fails then the liability is with Champion.   If Lasar is just selling the part (or plug) and not installing, there is minimal risk of liability. 

If it is the latter then they probably need insurance since we won't know if their springs will stand up for quite some time.

Either way, I think everyone involved knows that they have a monopoly and that they can charge whatever they want. It's not like they are going to risk future sales to or jeopardize their relationship with. Mooney.  There is little threat of being "designed out" in the future.  It is unlikely that Mooney will ever build another retract.  Lasar/Eaton know that they can milk it for all they can get. The odd thing is that Mooney could not front enough cash to get their hand in to grab some of that $3K as a middle man.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Maybe if they don’t get orders they will drop the price. After all they won’t be able to overhaul the actuators anymore which means more loss revenue.

I wonder how many owners have actuators that have over 1000 hours on them.

[Larry]

Just for reference, I had Topgun replace my Plessey actuator in 2016 with a rebuilt actuator.  I went back to that invoice and part #M20-282-001 No-back spring kit was priced at $802.50.

Larry

[1980Mooney]

On 10/25/2024 at 4:03 AM, ArtVandelay said:

Maybe if they don’t get orders they will drop the price. After all they won’t be able to overhaul the actuators anymore which means more loss revenue.

I wonder how many owners have actuators that have over 1000 hours on them.

Actually you have it backwards.  If they don't get the required 45 orders with advance payment of $1,250, I suspect they will charge more.  That means that they need a set-up fee of $56,250 cash in hand to start.  Fewer orders means the same fixed cost spread over however many orders they get.

If you plane is sitting AOG for months waiting for them to place the" 32 week" order for springs (and if it is the first batch don't be surprised if there are hiccups which stretch that way out) and Lasar calls and says "We need you to pay another $1,000 now and $4,000 in total to get the wheels rolling and make this happen" - just what are you going to do?

 

[cliffy]

This should interest Mooney owners down in Australia as they are on the ground once the time limit is reached for the NB spring from what I understand.