Signature is evil

[PT20J]

  On 5/29/2024 at 8:51 PM, LANCECASPER said:

Things happen and the only reason we were able to come to an agreement is that neither of us was unreasonable and we were able to arrive at a solution. The insurance adjuster helped keep things calm also. 

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I've always found that calm wins in negotiations. The first one to raise his voice usually loses.

[bcg]

  On 5/29/2024 at 8:51 PM, LANCECASPER said:

In the end none of us were completely satisfied

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That's how you know you reached the best possible deal for everyone involved.

[Schllc]

  On 5/29/2024 at 4:32 PM, bcg said:

My personal feeling is that the insurance companies are the real evil in the system. 

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This statement could not be more true. 
any companies that hire legions of people to avoid providing the one single service that you are compelled by law to purchase is dirty. 
I like to take a bath after dealing with insurance. 
I buy none that I am not compelled to buy. 

[Fly Boomer]

  On 5/29/2024 at 6:21 PM, AndreiC said:

Back to the topic of front gear management. Is it possible for me to damage it while pushing the plane with just my weight and a towbar? 1970 M20E.

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Why take the risk?  Just don't exceed the turn limits.

[dkkim73]

  On 5/29/2024 at 9:17 PM, Schllc said:

This statement could not be more true. 
any companies that hire legions of people to avoid providing the one single service that you are compelled by law to purchase is dirty. 
I like to take a bath after dealing with insurance. 

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It's one of those areas where I actually appreciate the value of regulatory oversight. As long as there isn't too much corruption or regulatory capture (almost afraid to think about it now). 

 

Healthcare insurance is a similarly pathologic environment, though I have more sympathy in that it's not a "normal good" and so it's a much more slippery landscape of reasonability and ethics. Though still I think they're probably the baddies, net-net.

 

(The bath comment is what I used to say about being in Las Vegas for business.)

 

[Paul Thomas]

I hope Omar will give us an update with details from the trial. The judge (it was a non-jury trial) found in favor of Signature. I'm sure we can learn from what was presented trial and the legal process so that we can avoid having a third party damage our airplanes and what to do should it happen.

[DonMuncy]

I don't think I heard. Was he represented by an attorney, of did he prosecute it himself?

[mike_elliott]

  On 5/31/2024 at 2:35 AM, Paul Thomas said:

I hope Omar will give us an update with details from the trial. The judge (it was a non-jury trial) found in favor of Signature. I'm sure we can learn from what was presented trial and the legal process so that we can avoid having a third party damage our airplanes and what to do should it happen.

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 That just sux...Omar absolutely did nothing negligent that caused this gear collapse. I am surprised the video of the tug pulling the plane out of the hangar and exceeding the tow limits did not convince the judge it was a line guy mistake. The video exists I have heard.

[midlifeflyer]

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:39 AM, DonMuncy said:

I don't think I heard. Was he represented by an attorney, of did he prosecute it himself?

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Among a number of good questions. 

[Paul Thomas]

  On 5/31/2024 at 8:53 AM, mike_elliott said:

 That just sux...Omar absolutely did nothing negligent that caused this gear collapse. I am surprised the video of the tug pulling the plane out of the hangar and exceeding the tow limits did not convince the judge it was a line guy mistake. The video exists I have heard.

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I'm not familiar with the facts of the case beside what I quickly saw in the court's record; I do not recall a video being part of the exhibits the parties mentioned. My understand based on Omar reply on Monday is that the video showed the ramp, not the airplane being pulled out of the hangar.

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:39 AM, DonMuncy said:

I don't think I heard. Was he represented by an attorney, of did he prosecute it himself?

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He had two trial attorneys and I'm familiar with one of them; we started our careers around the same time and she was a competent trial attorney at the time. She always did a good job back and had a reputation for being pleasant to work with while being tough, fair, and knowledgeable. She is now the managing litigation attorney for the firm that represented Omar and based on the filings, it appears she is quite active trying cases.

[mike_elliott]

I spent the first 20 or so hrs in the plane with Omar doing his transition training when it was new. He called me right after it happened, and later told me the security cameras clearly showed it being pulled and exceeding the tow limits. Mooney engineers left SunNFun and went to TMB to inspect, and concurred it was a result of lateral forces applied (vs mfrg defect, etc.) I previously posted a pic or 2 here of this gear. How the video was not entered into the record I do not know of. 

 

[natdm]

Now I'm getting paranoid. I wonder if it's worth installing a forward facing dashcam or something. Would just hate for it to kill the battery if I was gone for a while.

[mike_elliott]

here is the skinny....a 4 pt font gross negligence exclusion in the hangar rental agreement.

Gents, read the fine print....

 

[Greg Ellis]

  On 5/31/2024 at 4:05 PM, mike_elliott said:

here is the skinny....a 4 pt font gross negligence exclusion in the hangar rental agreement.

Gents, read the fine print....

 

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Okay, so this is 8 pt font.  Imagine what a 4 pt font would look like.  This site won't even let you go that small.  Amazing.  You would need a magnifying glass just to know it was there.  And that is not just fine print, it is ultra fine print....

[MikeOH]

Are there any legal rules for font size in contracts?  I'm pretty sure courts themselves would reject any documents presented to THEM with that small of font; I thought 12 pt. was commonly required for court documents?

What reasons could the video (assuming there is one showing the negligence) been inadmissible?

[Paul Thomas]

  On 5/31/2024 at 5:03 PM, MikeOH said:

Are there any legal rules for font size in contracts?  I'm pretty sure courts themselves would reject any documents presented to THEM with that small of font; I thought 12 pt. was commonly required for court documents?

What reasons could the video (assuming there is one showing the negligence) been inadmissible?

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I just don't recall seeing anything about the video; it may very well have been admitted. It was not one of the items I was interested in when I was looking at the court file.

[Parker_Woodruff]

  On 5/28/2024 at 3:20 PM, jetdriven said:

Signature is owned by BBA, which is the British company whose objective is to siphon money out of America. You never know why signature only operates in markets when there is a single FBO, they get all of the available space to lease and then they basically gouge people for it. it’s not normal supply and demand, it’s an  FBO with built-in monopoly and then gouging people. 

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The really strange thing about Signature is how their IAH location was really reasonably priced even when they were the only FBO on the field.  Now Atlantic is there, too.  I remember filling up for probably the low to mid $5s per gallon there, circa 2018.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Some days I sit in the office and wonder about becoming a civil defense attorney just for the sole purpose of defending people and small businesses from the dishonest products & completed operations claims I see.

I insure aviation repair & service shops and the disingenuous claims I see against them which could entirely run them out of business either by judgment or by loss of viable insurance in the future.

Many times it becomes apparent the claim/demand is just a fishing expedition.  I wish I could share some of the stories here.

[Echo]

I just finished a 38+ year career in Commercial Insurance.  I spent my time assessing operations and providing Risk assessments to internal and external customers.  I would like to think I saved lives and prevented some catastrophic lossess.  

My experience with insurance carriers as a customer (Aviation, Home, Auto) have been positive.  I feel I was treated professionally and FAIRLY by the humans that were doing their jobs.  Their job is to make me "whole" based on the coverages.  Without exception they did that.  I accept some personal risk with deductibles and like everyone that has insurance feel I pay "too much".  

Those that believe insurance companies are evil?  Whatever gets you through the day.  I judge those that make those types of blanket statements.

Edited May 31, 2024 by Echo

[Parker_Woodruff]

And don't get me started on the one-sided contracts I read (or contracts that don't even use standard insurance language!)...In fact, on the backburner, I'm looking at developing an airport consulting program to keep GA airports both business friendly and consumer friendly.

[GeeBee]

  On 5/31/2024 at 6:51 PM, Echo said:

I just finished a 38+ year career in Commercial Insurance.  I spent my time assessing operations and providing Risk assessments to internal and external customers.  I would like to think I saved lives and prevented some catastrophic lossess.  

My experience with insurance carriers as a customer (Aviation, Home, Auto) have been positive.  I feel I was treated professionally and FAIRLY by the humans that were doing their jobs.  Their job is to make me "whole" based on the coverages.  Without exception they did that.  I accept some personal risk with deductibles and like everyone that has insurance feel I pay "too much".  

Those that believe insurance companies are evil?  Whatever gets you through the day.  I judge those that make those types of blanket statements.

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They are not evil, but their business makes them that way (Thank you Jessica Rabbit).

You speak only as the policy holder. Have you ever been an aggrieved victim? 

My barber was out jogging. A woman insured by USAA driving from behind lost control of her vehicle while changing her radio, he ran all the way up into a yard of home but her car still managed to strike him on the front lawn. USAA denied all liability despite police citations to the driver, then said, they only owed him medical bills and not lost wages because he was over 65 and could draw Social Security. They also denied him expenses of his barber chair rental. Only when they were shown the doors of the court house did they want to settle. Dealing with him fairly, justly and responsively would have been far cheaper, but more important, the ethical thing to do.

[MikeOH]

"Aggrieved victim", LOL!  Talk about pejorative language in keeping with an 'ethical' approach...your bias is showing, @GeeBee

Yes, I have personal experience: I was injured by a guy that blew through a stop sign, hit me on my bike, and broke my foot.  The police issued him a citation on the spot.  I dealt directly with his insurance company and found them fair, just, and responsive.  They paid my medical, bike repair, lost wages, plus a reasonable amount for my inconvenience of lost mobility while in a cast.  Thing is, I wasn't looking to retire on the settlement so I didn't call the ambulance chaser with his face plastered on billboards all over town!  Sure, the shark probably could have got more but would I have ended up with any more in my pocket after he took his 40% plus 'expenses'?  And, dragged the thing out to the 'courthouse steps' in the process?  No, thanks.

I followed the steps in the NOLO book "How to Win Your Injury Claim" and, as they advertised, avoided the insurance company runaround.

[aviatoreb]

That really stinks - but thanks for stopping by and telling us about it!

Wow I hope you re enjoying that amazing Honda jet!

[GeeBee]

  On 5/31/2024 at 11:27 PM, MikeOH said:

"Aggrieved victim", LOL!  Talk about pejorative language in keeping with an 'ethical' approach...your bias is showing, @GeeBee

Yes, I have personal experience: I was injured by a guy that blew through a stop sign, hit me on my bike, and broke my foot.  The police issued him a citation on the spot.  I dealt directly with his insurance company and found them fair, just, and responsive.  They paid my medical, bike repair, lost wages, plus a reasonable amount for my inconvenience of lost mobility while in a cast.  Thing is, I wasn't looking to retire on the settlement so I didn't call the ambulance chaser with his face plastered on billboards all over town!  Sure, the shark probably could have got more but would I have ended up with any more in my pocket after he took his 40% plus 'expenses'?  And, dragged the thing out to the 'courthouse steps' in the process?  No, thanks.

I followed the steps in the NOLO book "How to Win Your Injury Claim" and, as they advertised, avoided the insurance company runaround.

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Insurance companies, like people are different. Some are ethical, some are not. Assume is spelled that way for a reason.

[MikeOH]

  On 6/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, GeeBee said:

Insurance companies, like people are different. Some are ethical, some are not. Assume is spelled that way for a reason.

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Likely true.

Your earlier statement indicated you felt otherwise, "They are not evil, but their business makes them that way".