Potential Pilot Deviation

[Danb]

You kidding me..  yesterday I was flying from Tunica Ms to Wilmington De.

After passing Nashville say 100 miles I was handed off multiple times around CRW I said we haven’t heard anything for a little while I called Center no response so I looked up the closest airport and got the Approach frequency and called telling them I haven’t had and they gave me the proper frequency. The controller being kinda curt said we’ve been looking for you for about 30 minutes gave me a phone number to call for a NORDO violation you friggen kidding me I’ve been trying you guys, I didn’t say that. I called said wrong number given another number requested all my pilot info cell number, N number name etc, I didn’t give pilot certificate number. They gave me a Brasher warning apparently like a Miranda warning and they would contact me when they get a chance. Why not keep me hanging. Did nothing wrong so I’ll wait.

Currenting writing a NASA report and will send in this morning explaining what occurred but not communicating I made an error.

What next?. I’m starting to think they Don’t want to deal with us. Then Washington center gave me the most complicated confusing change in my flight I guess my punishment. Right when handed off to Potomac and after descend through clouds I asked for direct and was given it.

 

D

[N201MKTurbo]

Last time I was visiting the TRACON, they were asked about violations. They said they hate doing the paperwork and the only time it happens is when there is an FAA guy watching them work (they are union guys. the FAA is the opposing team). 

It sounds like a miscommunication. As long as you were trying to reestablish communications and flying your last clearance. I don't think there is much they will do.

Did you check in when handed off?

[GeeBee]

I would be careful here and not speak too much here or anywhere else until this is resolved. This is one of the reasons I have the AOPA pilot protection package as I can get immediate advice under attorney client privilege and you should too. The guy at AOPA may not be my final choice to represent me, but you need privileged advice. 

That all said, and please don't say if you did or did not but this is the reason why I keep 121.5 in the number 2 with the audio on. I am also surprised they did not ask for another aircraft to relay to you.

While you may not think they want to deal with you, this flight involved heading near SFRA airspace and that will color how far they take it. 

[Kerrville]

Were you ifr or VFR and did you enter any controlled airspace other than class E?  If you have AOPA legal call them. Fill out the NASA form within 24 hours, but as soon as possible.  
 

They usually only say that if there has been a loss of separation, because as mentioned above, they don’t want to do paperwork either.  
 

I am very good friends with a retired AOPA attorney. If you have any preliminary questions, pm me and I will get you in touch. He will probably only tell you what I have just told you. 
 

I’m sorry to hear that. It is stressful and there are those who have and those who will with these things. We are all human and make mistakes, although it seems like as pilots we are not allowed to screw up. Who knows, the mistake may not even be yours, however they probably would not use the ppd phrase for just nordo. There was probably something else that you may not even have been aware of. 

[whiskytango]

As @GeeBee mentioned, you were NORDO on a heading toward the SFRA.  Also, your destination KILG is the area of the VIP TFR, so you were making ATC nervous.  That doesn't mean you did anything wrong.  There are some areas on the east coast that I frequently fly that are virtual dead spots for the frequencies I am assigned.  The ATC transmissions get so weak in these areas they become unintelligible.  There have been times when I never received a hand-off because I was in a dead spot for the assigned frequency I was on.  This may have happened to you.  The VHF communications system ATC uses is not perfect.

[Danb]

Case closed, can,t or won’t say anything else except the Center was very fair professional and respectful 

D

 

 

[Jim Peace]

For anyone reading this always monitor 121.5 whether VFR or IFR. Just keep the volume down a bit unless you like cat sounds. 
I don’t fly for delta so I actually don’t mind the chatter and nonsense.   Breaks up what would normally be a boring flight. 
 

I am amazed at the number of small plane pilots that don’t practice this. 

[dkkim73]

@Danb Happy to hear this. 

It is very easy to go technically NORDO for a single call (get the ATIS, juggle volumes, switch headsets etc). If it gets to a point where you can discuss openly, would be instructional to hear. 

Glad I don't fly near the SFRA. 

Be well,
David

 

[Danb]

I do fly with 121.5, unfortunately some thinks it’s an open frequency to have conversations with there buddies. 

[bcg]

I don't think I'd be too worried about it, they probably had to give you a number for some internal reporting reason.  My bet would be that you don't hear anything else about it and if you do, it'll end with a single phone call.

[PeteMc]

Once this is all cleared up, let us know what happened.  But until then, I agree with the others that the less in public the better.

For everyone else that can speak freely.   What is your time limit for not hearing anything on Comms?  I've noticed on some longer flights that there seem to be a LOT of dead spots with ATC's radios.  Often I can get them with the squelch, but then I need to listen to the static.  Other times I've been told by ATC that they won't be able to reach me for XX miles.  

 

[McMooney]

8 hours ago, Danb said:

You kidding me..  yesterday I was flying from Tunica Ms to Wilmington De.

After passing Nashville say 100 miles I was handed off multiple times around CRW I said we haven’t heard anything for a little while I called Center no response so I looked up the closest airport and got the Approach frequency and called telling them I haven’t had and they gave me the proper frequency. The controller being kinda curt said we’ve been looking for you for about 30 minutes gave me a phone number to call for a NORDO violation you friggen kidding me I’ve been trying you guys, I didn’t say that. I called said wrong number given another number requested all my pilot info cell number, N number name etc, I didn’t give pilot certificate number. They gave me a Brasher warning apparently like a Miranda warning and they would contact me when they get a chance. Why not keep me hanging. Did nothing wrong so I’ll wait.

Currenting writing a NASA report and will send in this morning explaining what occurred but not communicating I made an error.

What next?. I’m starting to think they Don’t want to deal with us. Then Washington center gave me the most complicated confusing change in my flight I guess my punishment. Right when handed off to Potomac and after descend through clouds I asked for direct and was given it.

 

D

same happened to me about a month ago, except, i actually ahd a radio failure as in it physically came apart.  reestablished comms and was given a number, sigh.

about two weeks later they called requesting proof of the radio repair and installation,  was told they would recommend no further action and was reminded of correct nordo procedures.

the guy did state that it's mandatory they report all breaks in comms over a certain amount of time

[Kerrville]

YOU'RE ON GUARD!

[Jim Peace]

This will force us all to get CPDLC. I am sure it’s just a few dollars extra. 

[GeeBee]

I would welcome cpdlc.

 

[PeteMc]

1 hour ago, Jim Peace said:

This will force us all to get CPDLC.

I bet CPDLC and Duplex are in the future for ATC and that will mean for all of us.  

Doubt any of us will still be around when it happens, but I bet it... or the future equivalent will be in a cockpit near you. 

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

I would welcome cpdlc.

 

Ditto

[bcg]

Thought this was timely to the conversation...lol

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[hubcap]

There are some pretty significant dead spots for comms down south of Memphis. I lost comms with Memphis Center a couple of years ago and came darn close to a UH-60 Blackhawk while flying back IFR from Florida.

[EricJ]

I had to get ATIS for my destination recently and there was so much traffic and noise on the channel I couldn't hear anything.   So I just switched the comm channel off long enough to get ATIS.   Naturally, as soon as I got back on the controller was hollering for me "ARE YOU STILL ON FREQUENCY?"   "Yes, back with you, was just getting ATIS."

He was unhappy, but, whatever. 

 

[DCarlton]

34 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I had to get ATIS for my destination recently and there was so much traffic and noise on the channel I couldn't hear anything.   So I just switched the comm channel off long enough to get ATIS.   Naturally, as soon as I got back on the controller was hollering for me "ARE YOU STILL ON FREQUENCY?"   "Yes, back with you, was just getting ATIS."

He was unhappy, but, whatever. 

 

I’ll try to listen to both while modulating the volume enough to hear the important parts.  I’m sure everyone does that but sometimes there’s just too much chatter …

[midlifeflyer]

6 hours ago, EricJ said:

I had to get ATIS for my destination recently and there was so much traffic and noise on the channel I couldn't hear anything.   So I just switched the comm channel off long enough to get ATIS.   Naturally, as soon as I got back on the controller was hollering for me "ARE YOU STILL ON FREQUENCY?"   "Yes, back with you, was just getting ATIS."

He was unhappy, but, whatever. 

 

When I was a fledgling in an airplane with only one radio, I was taught to ask the controller I was talking to if I could go off frequency for a minute to get the weather. Even with two radios, I used the strategy when I still hadn’t acquired the skill to listen to both. I would not hesitate to use it today.

Beats an unhappy controller and a potential Brasher invitation. 

[Pinecone]

The proper way to do it is to tell the controller you will be off frequency for a minute or two to get ATIS.  
 

I fly in the teens a lot so can go a long time without hearing anything, but I do monitor 121.5.  I have called center just to make sure 

if your radio actually fails, you are supposed to squawk 7700 for 1 minutes, then 7600

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

When I was a fledgling in an airplane with only one radio, I was taught to ask the controller I was talking to if I could go off frequency for a minute to get the weather. Even with two radios, I used the strategy when I still hadn’t acquired the skill to listen to both. I would not hesitate to use it today.

Beats an unhappy controller and a potential Brasher invitation. 

That requires you to be able to get a word in edgewise to let them know.   When the issue is that there is constant traffic so you can't hear the ATIS, it's not a real option.

 

[midlifeflyer]

27 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That requires you to be able to get a word in edgewise to let them know.   When the issue is that there is constant traffic so you can't hear the ATIS, it's not a real option.

 

Then you do what you can. I haven't had to go off frequency in years. Even in busy airspace, the most I might do is turn down COM 1 so it's background but keep my ears turned for my tail number. But bear in mind that an truly unhappy controller can still put you in Brasher territory.  And between that and reporting "negative ATIS" at some point, I'll choose the latter.