V-band clamp

[Jetrn]

For those who are looking for the v-band clamp for the tsio-360 or tsio-520 part number 653337. Ram has a few in stock now. Ordered 1 today, catalog shows $330, new price $475.

[shawnd]

Thank you sir...will be calling in tomorrow :-)

[M20F-1968]

RAM?

Contact info please.

John Breda

[Smiles201]

Ramaircraft.com

RAM Aircraft, L.P.

8am – 5pm - Monday thru Friday

P.O. Box 5219 • 7505 Karl May Drive
Waco Regional Airport (KACT), Building 409
Waco, TX 76708
(254) 752-8381

[Pinecone]

I just called them.

1)  The clamp is now $475 each.

2)  The clamp is NOT PMA approved for all engines that use that part number (specifically not the TSIO-360 series).  It references the Continental part number, but it is only approved for certain big bore Continentals.  They will still sell you the clamp, but it may not be legal on your airplane.

I am not sure how that would actually work if they PMAd it to get a replacement for Continental part number 653337.  Talk to your mechanic.  Up to the two of you.

Last summer when this all started, I asked my FBO to get me a clamp to have, and they sourced the RAM clamp.  So they seem to be fine with installing it.

[shawnd]

Instead of starting another - re-using this thread, might be good info for others before purchase.

Can anyone tell me if these are spot welded or riveted? Its on my 252 and these are the only pictures I have at the moment (a/c is in avionics shop).. From the second photo, potentially riveted given the edge? Anyone have photos of theirs that are riveted? I do not see the triangle pattern depicted in the AD. Click to enlarge.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

Those are spot welded. It looks like the spot welds under the nut are in a triangle pattern.

[Marc_B]

I would have thought that if the part was PMA that it would just mean it was comparing that part complying with the original part number.  How would that not then be applicable for use anywhere that part number was used?  If RAM manufactures a PMA part do they have to certify it for every application that it's in use??  Or am I confusing this with TSO part...a TSO part doesn't have to specify where it's used, but a PMA part has to be specified where it's installed...

Continental IPC for TSIO360SB2 listed below shows part 653337 V-band.  My shop had sourced me a part 670105 which is listed as an acceptable replacement for 653337.

[shawnd]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I am not sure how that would actually work if they PMAd it to get a replacement for Continental part number 653337.  Talk to your mechanic.  Up to the two of you.

Agree, chat with your A&P and IA and decide which route is best for you. Everyone seems to agree that this is mess given how they handled this AD.

[shawnd]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Those are spot welded. It looks like the spot welds under the nut are in a triangle pattern.

Thanks for confirming, bummer! :-)

[PT20J]

From the FAA PMA database:

PMA Holder Name: Ram Aircraft Limited Partnership

Status: Current CFR Part Reference: PMA Holder Number: PQ0399SW Office of Primary Responsibility: AIR-883: San Antonio MIDO Section Supplement Number: 117 REV. 2 Supplement Date: 10/28/2021 Part Name: V-BANDCOUPLING Approved Replacement for Part Number: CAT Inc P/N 653337 Make: ContinentalAerospace Technologies INC Model: TSIO-520-BE; TSIO-550-B1B | B2B | E1B | E2B | E3B | E4B FAA Approval Basis: Test and Computation per 14 CFR § 21.303, Dwg: 2172, REV H, Dated: 01/20/03, or later FAA approved revisions Sub-Status:  CFR Subpart/Appendix Reference:  CFR Section Reference: Sec. 21.301

[shawnd]

37 minutes ago, PT20J said:

FAA Approval Basis: Test and Computation per 14 CFR § 21.303, Dwg: 2172, REV H, Dated: 01/20/03, or later FAA approved revisions

Wondering what the test criteria was? Anyone have information on drawing 2172? No luck with google.

[PT20J]

4 minutes ago, shawnd said:

Wondering what the test criteria was? Anyone have information on drawing 2172? No luck with google.

That would be the proprietary drawing submitted to the FAA by RAM for approval per 21.303.

21.303 Application.

(a) The applicant for a PMA must apply in a form and manner prescribed by the FAA, and include the following: 

(1) The identity of the product on which the article is to be installed. 

(2) The name and address of the manufacturing facilities at which these articles are to be manufactured. 

(3) The design of the article, which consists of— 

(i) Drawings and specifications necessary to show the configuration of the article; and 

(ii) Information on dimensions, materials, and processes necessary to define the structural strength of the article. 

(4) Test reports and computations necessary to show that the design of the article meets the airworthiness requirements of this subchapter. The test reports and computations must be applicable to the product on which the article is to be installed, unless the applicant shows that the design of the article is identical to the design of a article that is covered under a type certificate. If the design of the article was obtained by a licensing agreement, the applicant must provide evidence of that agreement. 

(5) An applicant for a PMA based on test reports and computations must provide a statement certifying that the applicant has complied with the airworthiness requirements of this subchapter. 

(b) Each applicant for a PMA must make all inspections and tests necessary to determine— 

(1) Compliance with the applicable airworthiness requirements; 

(2) That materials conform to the specifications in the design; 

(3) That the article conforms to its approved design; and 

(4) That the manufacturing processes, construction, and assembly conform to those specified in the design. 

[shawnd]

Thanks @PT20J, yeah its likely a proprietary drawing. But was hoping maybe its "available" online. Searching around, did find one drawing spec, google: "Drawing 2166K" but this one is more of an installation/maintenance doc.

I am curious about the technical test specs so we could all understand if regular ole' clamps available elsewhere would meet the stringent criteria set forth by our beloved governing body.

 

Edit: looks like RAM does put up some of their Instructions for Continue Airworthiness documents on their site: https://www.ramaircraft.com/instructions-for-continued-airworthiness

[EricJ]

I think that might be a candidate for an OPP installation or even a VARMA approval letter.   It already has PMA for the appropriate part number on larger engines.   If the boost and temps are less or comparable (which I'd suspect), I don't know why it'd be unsafe on a TSIO-360 or similar.   

[anthonydesmet]

For your S/A. I just ordered my clamp from Ram for my Dugosh annual end of the month.  Good news is they have them in stock.  The “other” is that they are now $775.00 

[shawnd]

I went through my MSC, he ordered two from Ram and two from Aviall just to be sure there’s no differences in the internal diameters of the two products. 
 

I will report as well once I get my plane down there for annual. 

[Fix]

So if I want to order an V-Band Clamp for an TSIO-360SB is it part #653337 if I can find one or is it OK to get the superseded V-Band Clamp #670105 instead?

Are both if found "legal" to use, or is there anything I need to check before ordering?
 

[Will.iam]

On 2/1/2024 at 8:56 AM, anthonydesmet said:

For your S/A. I just ordered my clamp from Ram for my Dugosh annual end of the month.  Good news is they have them in stock.  The “other” is that they are now $775.00 

So did the part work? What was the part number you ordered? I have a tsio-360mb as well and will most likely need one soon. 

[Will.iam]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:55 PM, shawnd said:

I went through my MSC, he ordered two from Ram and two from Aviall just to be sure there’s no differences in the internal diameters of the two products. 
 

I will report as well once I get my plane down there for annual. 

Were they the same? Which one did you finally use?

[Pinecone]

The one I got from RAM has the 653337 part number on the bag.

[dkkim73]

Hi, 

When researching this, someone on the forum pointed out a tool on the Continental site that lists part # supercession. See attached for 653337 and 670105. I am not sure if this precludes use of the older parts (should you find "new old" stock) and also not sure what is airplane-specific. However, this was relevant to my search w.r.t. the Acclaim. 
One of the Mooney A&Ps might chime in, too. 
HTH

D

 

Continental Part or Engine Specification Supersedure V-band clamp Acclaim 653337 670105.pdf

[Marc_B]

I believe 670105 is a riveted V-band clamp and 653337 is a spot welded that has been superceded.  My suspicion is that you could use either, but I gather that the push was to move away from spot welded clamps towards riveted.  Both have a limit of some type be it number of times torqued (rivet) vs 500 hrs in service (spot weld).  But the best person to ask may be the IA who does your annuals.  I suspect that it's an either/or discussion with individual preferences.  But I'm not an A&P or IA.

[dkkim73]

FWIW 670105 is definitely riveted and has a "two-torque limit" per Mooney. Local IA told me it was actually more torques in other applications, which I found interesting. 

[shawnd]

FWIW - Air Power Inc has 670105 on back order now with stock expected beginning of December.. for those folks who want to order one: https://www.airpowerinc.com/670105