Looking to join the Bravo club after PPL

[JamyDev]

I'm getting close to finishing my PPL and I've been looking at what plane I'd like to get. The Bravo always stood out to me so that's what I'm going for. My instructor told me I should get at least 15 hours of dual with a CFI that has experience in the type, which is definitely my plan.

From reading the forums I've seen mostly good things about GMax, where they have N83FL. Looks to be decent, low time and mostly modern avionics.

 

Since this is my first aircraft purchase, any tips, tricks, or hints / things you would have liked to know before getting your Bravo?
How do I find a reputable mechanic to do a pre-purchase halfway across the country (Texas)?
This plane had a prop strike and an IRAN done. What kind of problems would I be able to expect with that?
Is it worth upgrading the KFC-150 to a GFC500? (Although I can't figure out if that's compatible with the G500 (non-Txi))
For you PNW based owners, where do you go and get your annual done?

Cheers,
Jamy

[kortopates]

Personally, as a CFI that does a lot of Mooney transition training, I would urge you to get your Instrument rating before moving upto a turbo aircraft. And if able some retract time. But call an insurance broker first, since not many underwriters will insure non instrument rated pilot in a turbo aircraft.

But a prior prop strike repair would not leave any damage since repair ordinarily would involve a new prop and tear down inspection repair of the engine fully replacing anything damaged. It will be better after the repair.

You’d probably want to update the G500 to the Txi with a GFC-500 install - that’s what i did.

[JamyDev]

18 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Personally, as a CFI that does a lot of Mooney transition training, I would urge you to get your Instrument rating before moving upto a turbo aircraft.

Roger, I was hoping to avoid having to buy a temporary aircraft just to transition to the bravo in the future anyways (use taxes + sale fees ). I'd hope to start doing my instrument training immediately after buying.

 

20 minutes ago, kortopates said:

And if able some retract time.

Closest retract that I can rent is $255 / hobbs hour + $80 for instruction. I'd rather pay that to an instructor that can teach me in the plane that I'd actually be flying. I got some insurance quotes a while back, and I am able to get insurance (albeit not cheap, this was with early hour Student Pilot with 0 retract as inputs)

[kortopates]

12 minutes ago, JamyDev said:

Roger, I was hoping to avoid having to buy a temporary aircraft just to transition to the bravo in the future anyways (use taxes + sale fees ). I'd hope to start doing my instrument training immediately after buying.

 

Closest retract that I can rent is $255 / hobbs hour + $80 for instruction. I'd rather pay that to an instructor that can teach me in the plane that I'd actually be flying. I got some insurance quotes a while back, and I am able to get insurance (albeit not cheap, this was with early hour Student Pilot with 0 retract as inputs)

Till you get more experience including a instrument rating, you have no idea what you will value in aircraft; especially in its panel. You also be able to get your instrument rating faster in a simpler aircraft and through a rental where you aren't delayed when your aircraft isn't down for maintenance. Renting you'll just change to a different similar rental. Your hourly operating expenses are almost always more expensive than renting - its cost we pay to have our personal aircraft available 24x7.

[dzeleski]

I’m not a CFI…. But a Bravo is ALOT of airplane for a low time pilot. I had to pause my IR training to learn not only how to fly my J but also how to own an airplane properly. I could not imagine doing the same with a Bravo at ~80 hours TT. 

As said above before you even begin to search for airplanes speak with an insurance broker. Many of us use @Parker_Woodruff and he’s great to work with, but insurance is going to be your big hurdle.

If you haven’t gotten a ride in any Mooney I would start with that. Plenty of people probably leave near by that would be willing to do it. I’ll bet it might change your perspective a bit, Mooneys are awesome platforms but they require a decent amount of respect. You can “make it work” in a trainer, you can’t do that in a Mooney, everything needs to be planned well in advance and this is even more important when flying IFR.

Welcome and best of luck on your search!

[LANCECASPER]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:14 PM, JamyDev said:

I'm getting close to finishing my PPL and I've been looking at what plane I'd like to get. The Bravo always stood out to me so that's what I'm going for. My instructor told me I should get at least 15 hours of dual with a CFI that has experience in the type, which is definitely my plan.

From reading the forums I've seen mostly good things about GMax, where they have N83FL. Looks to be decent, low time and mostly modern avionics.

 

Since this is my first aircraft purchase, any tips, tricks, or hints / things you would have liked to know before getting your Bravo?
How do I find a reputable mechanic to do a pre-purchase halfway across the country (Texas)?
This plane had a prop strike and an IRAN done. What kind of problems would I be able to expect with that?
Is it worth upgrading the KFC-150 to a GFC500? (Although I can't figure out if that's compatible with the G500 (non-Txi))
For you PNW based owners, where do you go and get your annual done?

Cheers,
Jamy

The most likely reason for the prop strike on the Bravo is that someone who had low time in type brought it in too fast and tried to "make" it land. after it started porpoising.

The most common insurance claim in a long body Mooney is prop strike by a low time Mooney pilot which will make insurance incredibly difficult and/or expensive to get. The expensive premiums after the prop strike could be the reason that N83FL is for sale since it was registered in 2022 and had a prop strike in 2022.

[Bolter]

2 hours ago, JamyDev said:

I'm getting close to finishing my PPL and I've been looking at what plane I'd like to get. The Bravo always stood out to me so that's what I'm going for. My instructor told me I should get at least 15 hours of dual with a CFI that has experience in the type, which is definitely my plan.

From reading the forums I've seen mostly good things about GMax, where they have N83FL. Looks to be decent, low time and mostly modern avionics.

 

Since this is my first aircraft purchase, any tips, tricks, or hints / things you would have liked to know before getting your Bravo?
How do I find a reputable mechanic to do a pre-purchase halfway across the country (Texas)?
This plane had a prop strike and an IRAN done. What kind of problems would I be able to expect with that?
Is it worth upgrading the KFC-150 to a GFC500? (Although I can't figure out if that's compatible with the G500 (non-Txi))
For you PNW based owners, where do you go and get your annual done?

Cheers,
Jamy

@JamyDev I am based at KPAE and take my Ovation to Advanced (Greg Lehman) at Troutdale/KTTD.  KBLI has a Mooney shop, too, but I have never been.

I believe that FIKI is more useful in the PNW region than a Turbo.  You still have to go through the ice layers, even if you stay on this side of the Cascades.  I am biased since I have a non-turbo FIKI Mooney and it gets things done.  There is a difference between TKS equipped and FIKI, so you may want clarification on what is installed.  

Of course, icing protection and turbo altitudes are only truly relevant with an IFR rating, not VFR.    -dan

[hubcap]

These guys have offered you some great advice. I definitely think a Bravo is too much airplane for a low time pilot, and I would definitely agree that you should get your instrument rating before buying a Mooney. The reason being that you must fly more precisely when flying IFR, and Mooneys are planes that demand to be flown precisely. As @LANCECASPER pointed out, most prop strikes are the result of attempting to land too fast. You can get by with that in a 172, but not in a Bravo.

Best of luck in your aviation endeavors, which hopefully will include a Mooney in your future.

[JamyDev]

2 hours ago, dzeleski said:

If you haven’t gotten a ride in any Mooney I would start with that.

I'm afraid that if I do that I'm even more going to want one, which by the sound of it isn't quite the right decision yet. 

 

1 hour ago, Bolter said:

There is a difference between TKS equipped and FIKI
I am based at KPAE

Didn't know that. Any chance I can bug you for a test ride?  

47 minutes ago, hubcap said:

you should get your instrument rating before buying a Mooney

Any Mooney, or is there a model that you would consider a good starting point?

[Fritz1]

Yes to all, I did my instruments training on a V35B and F33A, excellent trainers, a turbo engine does not take well to frequent and rapid load changes inherent to training, turbos thrive on going high, staying there and coming down slowly without shock cooling, best plan forward is probably to get instrument rating in rented trainer

[hubcap]

32 minutes ago, JamyDev said:that if I do that I'm even more going to want one, which by the sound of it isn't quite the right decision yet. a test ride?  

Any Mooney, or is there a model that you would consider a good starting point?

The “J” seems to be a perennial favorite, but your mission will determine your ultimate choice. There is nothing wrong with starting in a short body and moving up as you gain experience and figure out what you really want in an airplane.

[alexz]

Bravo is awesome airplane, depending on your ability to learn motor and mental tasks it will take you from 25 to 70 hours to get comfortable with the plane and then some. If you did not have any complex time I’ll advise getting at least 25-50 hours in something like a Piper arrow. Then there is always a question of insurance. 
Look for turbo age (usually requires overhaul around 1000 hours), turbo couplings, gear rigging, gear actuator, fuel tank sealing. Otherwise they don’t have many problems if been flown properly. Properly meaning NOT by POH power settings. 

On avionics side, G3X touch with GFC500 - light years ahead better than any KFC-xxx rotary phone

GTN750xi + G3X + GFC500 + some attitude backup and some kind of digital engine state monitor is a go.

 

[BravoWhiskey]

The route I went before buying my Bravo was PPL, IFR, Complex.

I was lowtime pilot and Bravo was a lot of plane for me at first.  And it intimidated me at first.  That’s not a good way to feel when flying. 

[BravoWhiskey]

10 minutes ago, alexz said:

Bravo is awesome airplane, depending on your ability to learn motor and mental tasks it will take you from 25 to 70 hours to get comfortable with the plane and then some. If you did not have any complex time I’ll advise getting at least 25-50 hours in something like a Piper arrow. Then there is always a question of insurance. 
Look for turbo age (usually requires overhaul around 1000 hours), turbo couplings, gear rigging, gear actuator, fuel tank sealing. Otherwise they don’t have many problems if been flown properly. Properly meaning NOT by POH power settings. 

On avionics side, G3X touch with GFC500 - light years ahead better than any KFC-xxx rotary phone

GTN750xi + G3X + GFC500 + some attitude backup and some kind of digital engine state monitor is a go.

 

Yep… it was about 30-40 hours and a @donkaye video on landings that got me in the zone

[JamyDev]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think the best course of action for me is to work on my Instrument rating next. Maybe with a complex plane. Once I get those, I'll re-evaluate my purchasing plans.

Hope I can catch a ride in a Mooney some time, I fly out of S43 and I know there's a Mooney based there but haven't had a chance to run into the owner.

[Bolter]

4 hours ago, JamyDev said:

I'm afraid that if I do that I'm even more going to want one, which by the sound of it isn't quite the right decision yet. 

Didn't know that. Any chance I can bug you for a test ride?  

In principle, I would be happy to take you for a ride.  The reality is that I don't get to fly that often except with the full family loaded up.  You can PM me with your info, but it may be a while.  -dan