Tail stand design

[Jpravi8tor]

Greetings fellow enthusiasts does anyone have a good tail stand/weight design they would share?

[ShuRugal]

42 minutes ago, Jpravi8tor said:

Greetings fellow enthusiasts does anyone have a good tail stand/weight design they would share?

 

Ask @orionflt about mine....  Apparently a 30 gallon bucket full of concrete is overkill?

[N201MKTurbo]

An oil drum cut down just below the lower bead will weigh 360 Lbs when filled with concrete. Put some casters on it so you can move it. weld a cross bar with an orthogonal bar welded to the cross with a hoisting ring welded to that. embed that arrangement in the concrete while pouring it.

[N201MKTurbo]

Take the most forward CG of the plane at max gross weight, calculate the moment from the jack points. divide that by the distance from the jack points to the tail tie down. This is the minimum weight of the tail stand.

[DonMuncy]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Take the most forward CG of the plane at max gross weight, calculate the moment from the jack points. divide that by the distance from the jack points to the tail tie down. This is the minimum weight of the tail stand.

Wow. It always scares me when someone wants to do it right.  

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, Jpravi8tor said:

Greetings fellow enthusiasts does anyone have a good tail stand/weight design they would share?

Stack of old race car brake rotors and rotor rings on a Harbor Freight dolly.   It weighs somewhere 250-300 lbs.  I put the floatie pads on it just in case the tail comes down on it for some reason, which it hasn't so far.   I like this better than the usual concrete-in-a-bucket because I can disassemble this if needed.    Rolls around in the hangar pretty easily.

[Fly Boomer]

38 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Stack of old race car brake rotors and rotor rings on a Harbor Freight dolly.   It weighs somewhere 250-300 lbs.

Looks like about 10 rotors, so they weigh in the neighborhood of 25-30 pounds each?  I have been contemplating an A-frame with a couple of pulleys, and a cable with a hook for the engine on one end and a platform for some kind of weights on the other.  Those rotors would be a manageable weight.

[EricJ]

28 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Looks like about 10 rotors, so they weigh in the neighborhood of 25-30 pounds each?  I have been contemplating an A-frame with a couple of pulleys, and a cable with a hook for the engine on one end and a platform for some kind of weights on the other.  Those rotors would be a manageable weight.

I think it's actually 14 or 15 rotors and rings, but I can count them up later if it's useful.   It's nice because you can stack more rings on it if needed.   I think the top ring or two are loose as it is.   The big ones in the middle are one-piece rotors from a Cadillac CTS-V and are very heavy.   The rest are various rotors and rings from race brakes.   I used two-piece rotors for many years so the rings were consumable and I had a big stack of them laying around.

[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I think it's actually 14 or 15 rotors and rings, but I can count them up later if it's useful.   It's nice because you can stack more rings on it if needed.   I think the top ring or two are loose as it is.   The big ones in the middle are one-piece rotors from a Cadillac CTS-V and are very heavy.   The rest are various rotors and rings from race brakes.   I used two-piece rotors for many years so the rings were consumable and I had a big stack of them laying around.

The weight is not critical.  I had been thinking about using weights that a lifter would use in a gymnasium, but it looks like these dead rotors would stack much better, and are probably readily available at a brake shop.  Great idea!

[EricJ]

45 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

The weight is not critical.  I had been thinking about using weights that a lifter would use in a gymnasium, but it looks like these dead rotors would stack much better, and are probably readily available at a brake shop.  Great idea!

Using free weights was something I'd thought about as well, but these seem to stack better, but I had them laying around, too, so that was a big plus. 

FWIW, this is what one of my previous IAs, that is a mobile mechanic, used.   These are concrete block, not haydite.   They're heavy, but not so much that they're not portable.

[Fly Boomer]

21 minutes ago, EricJ said:

FWIW, this is what one of my previous IAs, that is a mobile mechanic, used.   These are concret block, not haydite.   They're heavy, but not so much that they're not portable.

Not a great pic, but you can see the tail weight my mobile mechanic brought to my hangar.  It's a drum filled with concrete on huge casters.  He had to use an engine hoist to get it from his truck to the hangar floor.

 

[A64Pilot]

Since he said tail stand, I assumed he meat something to put under the tail when the engine was removed

[Kelpro999]

I use lead bars above and below with a telescoping square tube stand pinned at whatever height I need.

[Pinecone]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:49 PM, A64Pilot said:

Since he said tail stand, I assumed he meat something to put under the tail when the engine was removed

My shop uses the same unit for both jacking and to hold up tail when engine is removed.

It is a cut off 55 gallon drum (about the first rib up), on casters, filled with concrete.  

I will have to take a look at the connector to see what they use when there is an engine removal.

[N201MKTurbo]

I have a tie down in my hangar floor to hold the tail down. I have a Home Depot bucket that I cut a hole in the bottom. I string the chain through the upside down bucket and then through an old inflated inner tube to hold the tail up with the engine off.

[Fly Boomer]

32 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have a tie down in my hangar floor to hold the tail down. I have a Home Depot bucket that I cut a hole in the bottom. I string the chain through the upside down bucket and then through an old inflated inner tube to hold the tail up with the engine off.

I have been thinking about setting three anchors in the hangar floor, and attaching each to the tail with a rigid link.  Trouble is, either the links would need to be variable length to accommodate somewhat imperfect positioning of the airplane, or the tail tiedown would need to be almost perfectly centered between the three anchors.  Upside is that the three links would constrain the tail from moving on any axis.

[N201MKTurbo]

28 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I have been thinking about setting three anchors in the hangar floor, and attaching each to the tail with a rigid link.  Trouble is, either the links would need to be variable length to accommodate somewhat imperfect positioning of the airplane, or the tail tiedown would need to be almost perfectly centered between the three anchors.  Upside is that the three links would constrain the tail from moving on any axis.

if it is on jacks, it won't move. If it is on wheels, just chock the wheels.

[Fly Boomer]

Just now, N201MKTurbo said:

if it is on jacks, it won't move. If it is on wheels, just chock the wheels.

I have seen both iffy jacks and iffy chocks.
 

[N201MKTurbo]

22 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I have seen both iffy jacks and iffy chocks.
 

Don't use iffy jacks or iffy chocks.

[JimB]

I have gone to just lifting the front using an engine hoist. I have the cowlings off anyway and it actually works just as well. Not to mention it is what Mooney recommends anymore. If I leave it up there for a day or 2 during annual, I have a 2x6 that is cut the correct length to support the hoist in case it bleeds down. 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have a tie down in my hangar floor to hold the tail down. I have a Home Depot bucket that I cut a hole in the bottom. I string the chain through the upside down bucket and then through an old inflated inner tube to hold the tail up with the engine off.

A hangar neighbor with an M20A does this, where he just chains the tail to the floor.   He says he's been doing it that way for a long time.    I'd do that, too, if I didn't have that enormous expansion joint going down the middle of my hangar.   

[A64Pilot]

41 minutes ago, JimB said:

I have gone to just lifting the front using an engine hoist. I have the cowlings off anyway and it actually works just as well. Not to mention it is what Mooney recommends anymore. If I leave it up there for a day or 2 during annual, I have a 2x6 that is cut the correct length to support the hoist in case it bleeds down. 

I lift mine too with an engine hoist, not being able to find another approved method, and even that is I guess arguable 

Having said that I rode by a neighbors house the other day that had his Bravo on jacks and was holding the tail down with a weight. I asked why not use the nose jack point, to be told we don’t have three jacks. I didn’t know how to respond to that so I didn’t say anything.

[M20F]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I lift mine too with an engine hoist, not being able to find another approved method, and even that is I guess arguable 

Harbor Freight engine host here as well.  I use it for other things like hoisting engines and it folds up and stores easily compared to 600lb bucket of concrete. 

[MikeOH]

I can't say I've read every post, but I haven't seen the actual weight required to hold the tail down.  I've seen barrels of concrete at 600 pounds discussed...but, does it really take that much??

Back in the day (late '70s) we used to move C150s, C172s, and even occasional C182 (not me, I was too light!) around by just pushing down on the tail to lift the nose (Yeah, in your best Apocalypse Now voice, "Oh, The HORROR, THE HORROR").

Yeah, a Mooney ain't a Cezzna (Thankfully), and you want a little 'extra', but what weight is really required?

[Jpravi8tor]

I went with Eric J’s hobo freight 1000# furniture dolly and have scrounged 400#s of solid block

i am using 4 3/8 aircraft cables anchored to a 4/4 oak block mounted under the dolly 

cost me all of 35.00 dollars