Fuel Management

[RobertGary1]

Is it far to say those who run ranks dry don’t have a totalizer? I know how much fuel is in each tank to 1/2 gal. 

[Fly Boomer]

It’s a technique to assure all remaining fuel is in one place.  Better to have 4 gallons in one tank than 2 gallons in each tank.

[Hank]

49 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

It’s a technique to assure all remaining fuel is in one place.  Better to have 4 gallons in one tank than 2 gallons in each tank.

Since I burn 9 gal per hour, I much prefer to have my last 10-12 gal in one tank. If I ever hit 4 gallons remaining, something bad has already happened . . . . . 

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, Hank said:

Since I burn 9 gal per hour, I much prefer to have my last 10-12 gal in one tank. If I ever hit 4 gallons remaining, something bad has already happened . . . . . 

The same idea applies.  Better to have 10 in one tank that 5 in each.  

[kortopates]

What i don’t get is how commonly people run out of fuel here in the US where there are airports with avgas everywhere for the most part.
Leave the US and it’s common to be more than hour if not multiple hours to the next airport with fuel!
Maybe that’s the mindset pilots need to be in to stop running out of fuel.


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[kortopates]

I tankered a lot of fuel this morning into Mexico City...we saved thousands according to the paperwork...depends on fuel prices....

How can that be, Mexico has the cheapest fuel throughout North America and Central America? Due to contracted fuel purchases?


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[Jim Peace]

9 hours ago, kortopates said:

How can that be, Mexico has the cheapest fuel throughout North America and Central America? Due to contracted fuel purchases?


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No idea except we fly there from our home base and it’s probable we get it cheaper at home. I just did it again this week and landed with triple the amount of fuel that I needed. Max reverse and autobrake 3 to almost the end of 5R. 

[Pinecone]

22 hours ago, kortopates said:

What i don’t get is how commonly people run out of fuel here in the US where there are airports with avgas everywhere for the most part.
Leave the US and it’s common to be more than hour if not multiple hours to the next airport with fuel!
Maybe that’s the mindset pilots need to be in to stop running out of fuel.

I think there is a bit of, "I can make it."  And heck, there are plenty of places, so I can just stop and fill it up.  Not thinking, that they have to have enough gas to get there, fly the pattern, land, and taxi.

But I agree, that is one common mistake that I just have to shake my head.

[McMooney]

I'm  paranoid about fuel, I was uncomfortable with 3hours in the tanks going ksgr->klbx.  had the tanks topped at klbx before i flew back to ksgr

[DCarlton]

I’ve never run my tanks dry.  Is there a potential increased risk of sucking up debris into the fuel system if you do?  

[kortopates]

I’ve never run my tanks dry.  Is there a potential increased risk of sucking up debris into the fuel system if you do?  

Not really any debris because the fuel pick up is above the bottom of the tank and why you have unusable fuel. But unlike a carbureted engine, with fuel injection, it’s certainly possible to get air in the line that will create some roughness till it clears.


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[Hank]

2 hours ago, DCarlton said:

I’ve never run my tanks dry.  Is there a potential increased risk of sucking up debris into the fuel system if you do?  

Any debris that may settle to the bottom while parked on the ground will certainly get agitated and mixed in if the air is anything other than baby--bottom-smooth. So this is one less thing to worry about.

[Pinecone]

When I ran a tank dry to calibrate some dipsticks, I got some sputter, but it wasn't bad (injected).  I was thinking about hitting low boost, but it smoothed out.

[Fly Boomer]

54 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

When I ran a tank dry to calibrate some dipsticks, I got some sputter, but it wasn't bad (injected).  I was thinking about hitting low boost, but it smoothed out.

I've heard that it can be rather sudden.  Did you see any pressure fluctuation before the sputter, or was that the first indicator?

[Pinecone]

I flew with my hand on the fuel selector until the first sputter, and flipped it.  It sputtered a bit and then smoothed out.

[kortopates]

If your anticipating it and ready for it with some altitude it’s not a big deal.

Where it bites is when it catches you by surprise at low altitude, even if you told yourself it’s coming. Over the years from instructing at PPP’s I’ve talked to a couple pilots that ran a tank dry at 1000’ Agl without time to get it restarted except to pick a spot to land and do so. At that altitude most report not having time to spare to attempt restart while maneuvering for an off field landing.


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[PT20J]

I ran a tank dry recently on a M20J to replace a leaking sump drain. It cut out a couple of times when the level got down to the pick up before it died. There wasn't really much warning from the fuel pressure gauge because fuel injection doesn't have a place to store fuel like a carburetor with a float bowl.

Many years ago when I was working on my multi-engine rating in a Seminole, my instructor used to like to fail an engine (at altitude) by shutting off the fuel. One day we flew a turbo Seminole and when he did that, it created a lot of engine surging and yawing. It was pretty exciting.

[Greg Ellis]

14 hours ago, Hank said:

Any debris that may settle to the bottom while parked on the ground will certainly get agitated and mixed in if the air is anything other than baby--bottom-smooth. So this is one less thing to worry about.

I wish I could find the source but I remember reading when I first got my Mooney that taxiing out even on smooth pavement will stir up anything in the tanks.  It doesn’t take a flight to do that.  I know I hear sloshing in my tanks when I pull the airplane out of the hangar so stuff would get stirred up then as well.

[MBDiagMan]

I ran a tank dry one time while doing engine break in above the airport.  The engine never stopped, just started running a little rough.  I switched tanks and it smoothed out.  No big deal.

[RobertGary1]

The main risk isn’t debris it’s the chance that your fuel selector seals are not in new condition. You may suck air from the non selected tank. It’s why lake aero prohibited their pilots from running tanks dry. 

[GeeBee]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:17 AM, Jim Peace said:

No idea except we fly there from our home base and it’s probable we get it cheaper at home. I just did it again this week and landed with triple the amount of fuel that I needed. Max reverse and autobrake 3 to almost the end of 5R. 

You got to be pegging the "fun-o-meter" to fly the Mateo arrival heavy.

[Jim Peace]

3 hours ago, GeeBee said:

You got to be pegging the "fun-o-meter" to fly the Mateo arrival heavy.

Enaga 2A to RUTAS..then ILS 5R...easy peasy...

[GeeBee]

7 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Enaga 2A to RUTAS..then ILS 5R...easy peasy...

Ah yes, a little easier. At least you don't have to wrap it up hard.

 

[Denis Mexted]

In another life I would fly heavy Chieftains 3 hours out to sea and land on a small bit of bitumen. (Lord Howe and Norfolk Island)

Past half way, there was no other place to land. We always ran tanks dry. If you were alert fuel lights would give you ten seconds notice to change. But mostly it was a bit of a surge. 
We never had a problem. 
If you’re doing any sort of range flying I think it’s a good idea to have real world figures of what’s in your tanks. 

[GeeBee]

On 6/1/2023 at 4:02 AM, Pinecone said:

OTOH if you run the fuel fairly low, I would prefer 15 gallons in one, the other empty. Than having 7.5 in each

This is sound operating practice at least in an Ovation.  I cannot speak to other models. My M20R operating manual has this warning:

Takeoff maneuvers when the selected fuel tank contains less than 12 gallons (45.4 liters) of fuel have not been demonstrated.

Thus if you are landing and perform a balked landing, you are in test pilot mode according to Mooney.