Weight and Balance question

[Gstep]

I don't know much yet, I'll admit.  I was looking at older Bonanzas and with one particular one, you could probably get it off the ground with 4 good size adults, but not much fuel.  

Bonanzas can get aft loaded too heavy from my understanding.  I haven't seen that with the M20 but thought I'd check on any issues 

So I'm curious about the same question in a M20  C E ...J  Probably wrongly assuming the models are similar, short body vs long body would probably be the biggest factor ? 

Front Seats about 430, rear seat 300 pounds.  One person is about 6'3" so that could be a issue as well. 

By useful load, shouldn't be a problem... I think. 

Probably about an hour and half max flights.. 

Thanks 

 

 

 

 

[RLCarter]

The older “V-Tail” Bonanzas would go outside the envelope after fuel was used, so it was possible to start the flight within limits the land outside of the limits.. when I purchased my E, I had a NEW weight & balance done, once I had the numbers I played around with different scenarios and as long as you stayed at or below gross it was hard to get out the CG limits… 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Gs!

Welcome to the math class of flying….

Weight and balance are key topics…

Trainer planes always discuss filling the seats and tanks…

Brand B has a set-up for you to fall out the back end of the balance envelope as fuel burns off…

 

Mooneys allow for flexibility… as pilot in command, you get to fill the seats or fill the tanks to meet your requirements…

Some Mooneys have 130 useable gallons of fuel…allowing their standard sized pilot and second in command to fly halfway across most countries…

Most of this math is done once, the details are put into an App… for great usability in the future…

It’s a real challenge to have your entire family enjoy flying for more than a few hours at a time… 

If your family is full grown adults… four people can fit in a short body Mooney… but the size of your four… will make a difference… have you ever put these people in a Firebird?  How did they like the experience…

Time to go sit in a few planes…

If you put your data in your avatar area… somebody may be able to help you out….

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[PT20J]

Here’s my J with your load and no fuel. Leaves you about 275 lbs for fuel and baggage. 6’3” shouldn’t be a problem, especially in the front with a later model with the articulating seats.

[Shadrach]

22 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Here’s my J with your load and no fuel. Leaves you about 275 lbs for fuel and baggage. 6’3” shouldn’t be a problem, especially in the front with a later model with the articulating seats.

I don’t think that most Js have the 2900lb MGW allowance. Agree that he’ll be fine CG wise.  There are plenty of Mooneys that will do this mission but the ULs very enough from plane to plane to disqualify individual aircraft throughout the range of models. 
My F with its 2740 MGW will take 730lbs of people and have 330lb left for gas and bags. 
There are some 4 cyl mid bodies that would be tight on fuel with 730lbs in the cabin.

[A64Pilot]

I’m a heavy aircraft with 730 lbs in the cabin, that leaves me with about 30 gls of fuel. That’s within the 1.5 hour endurance with reserve, but barely. I’m 2740 gross.

2900 GW it’s easy.

[McMooney]

My "little" E has room for 21 gallons with 430 front, 300 rear, 50 baggage and 10 Rack.

[Hank]

22 minutes ago, McMooney said:

My "little" E has room for 21 gallons with 430 front, 300 rear, 50 baggage and 10 Rack.

My little C would have 30 gallons, an easy 2 hours plus1golden hour in reserve. 

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

I’m a heavy aircraft with 730 lbs in the cabin, that leaves me with about 30 gls of fuel. That’s within the 1.5 hour endurance with reserve, but barely. I’m 2740 gross.

2900 GW it’s easy.

In the summer on a high DA day a 2740 makes for mediocre performance, I imagine 2900 is pretty doggy. Your plane must be pretty well equipped as it is 150lbs heavier than mine.

[FlyingDude]

4 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I don’t think that most Js have the 2900lb MGW allowance. Agree that he’ll be fine CG wise.  There are plenty of Mooneys that will do this mission but the ULs very enough from plane to plane to disqualify individual aircraft throughout the range of models. 
My F with its 2740 MGW will take 730lbs of people and have 330lb left for gas and bags. 
There are some 4 cyl mid bodies that would be tight on fuel with 730lbs in the cabin.

430lb pax?? That’s a really big person. Maybe too tall or too wide? Or both?

 

[Will.iam]

14 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

430lb pax?? That’s a really big person. Maybe too tall or too wide? Or both?

 

OP said 430 in front seats with an “s” so i think that means 430 between 2 people  
having said that my plane is a fat piggy and at 730 lbs would leave me with just 6 gallons of fuel so a no go in my plane, someone would have to stay behind  

Now once i get the encore upgrade with max weight increase i would be able to take the 730 plus 44 gallons for a solid 3 hours plus reserves. 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

In the summer on a high DA day a 2740 makes for mediocre performance, I imagine 2900 is pretty doggy. Your plane must be pretty well equipped as it is 150lbs heavier than mine.

Bladders, I think 30 lb of so autopilot, Century 41? Radar altimeter and Storm scope, plus it’s actual weight.

I’ve never weighed an older aircraft to find it weighs less than the calculated weight. They it seems just pitck up weight over the years, not as much as I have but they seem to.

I have 1846 in Foreflight unless I got dyslexic.

Mooney’s at least the 4 cyl ones aren’t known for climb performance, it’s only 200 HP, but compared to a loaded Ag plane they perform very well, Ag plane you might get 200 FPM until the first pass but weight comes off pretty quickly.

So it’s what your used to.

[Shadrach]

23 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

430lb pax?? That’s a really big person. Maybe too tall or too wide? Or both?

 

Look at the boxes checked to the left. Skip was using just one seat for the weight of both front seat pax (230 and 200lbs). He did the same in the back seaters.

[Shadrach]

22 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Bladders, I think a 30 lb of so autopilot, Century 41? Radar altimeter and Storm scope, plus it’s actual weight.

I’ve never weighed an older aircraft to find it weighs less than the calculated weight. They it seems just pitck up weight over the years, not as much as I have but they seem to.

I have 1846 in Foreflight unless I got dislexic

The advantage of the early, lightweight birds with basic IFR equipment is definitely UL.

1060lbs gives a lot of loading options when your avg fuel burn is 10 gph. Some don't need the capacity, with two young kids, I will.

I rarely fly more than ~3hrs with pax anyways (certainly not with 4 aboard), so it will easily do about 450nm still air with 200lbs per seat and still be double digits under gross at take off with reserves. It has room to lose weight (generator, prop, etc.) but I don't need really need it.

[A64Pilot]

Lightweight starters, props, alternators, they all lose weight but are expensive.

Cheapest weight I could lose is me

[carusoam]

@Gstep,

Check out the details above…

Skip ran some sample calculations for you…

 

Today’s awesome MSer award goes to Skip… for helping out a fellow aviator…

Best regards,

-a-

[amillet]

Here is a real life example of a flight I made on Labor Day weekend to pick up my son, his wife and a granddaughter 

[carusoam]

Great examples of real world pilots doing real world calculations….

In a modern way!

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

My "little" E has room for 21 gallons with 430 front, 300 rear, 50 baggage and 10 Rack.

My 78 J could carry 37 gallons with above, so looks like a fairly tight range of fuel available (21-37) for C to J models. But the J has more rear leg room, especially important carrying large(taller) people up front. I’m more conservative and have 2 hour reserve limit, so that’s 20 gallons left for the flight.

[RobertGary1]

My F model meets tha criteria no problem. I will say that at gross mooneys require some care getting off the ground. Have patience  getting off the ground and climbing especially when hot. If you get impatient and try to yank it off the ground before it’s flying or point the nose up high in the climb you’ll never climb. Our wings like airspeed. 
The downside of only 200hp is you can’t power out of hamfisted flying.