Initial climb out speed

[Wildhorsetrail]

So in an M20J what is your initial climb out speed and why? I'm talking the first 100 to 200 feet.

 

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[jetdriven]

80-100 MPH

[Ragsf15e]

I agree with @jetdriven, but I’m letting it accelerate through that range in the first 100-200’.  I’d like to get to Vy which is just past the upper end of that.  As soon as I’m comfortable with the airplane performance and having at least a chance of a reasonable landing site, I’ll transition to cruise climb of 120mph.  This happens fast enough that it’s more like a slow, continuous acceleration since the 1-200’ you asked about should be ~15”.

[PT20J]

At sea level, I lift off at about 65 KIAS and maintain about 7 deg nose up and let the airplane accelerate. Passing 80 KIAS and probably about 100' (I've never paid much attention) I raise the flaps and continue accelerating to about 100 - 105 KIAS.

By the way, I played around recently in a DCX MAX AATD that has a reasonably accurate M20J aerodynamic model to see if I could make the impossible turn.  With no wind, it was easy to make the runway from 1000' and marginal at 800'. Cut the power, counted to five, rolled into a 45 deg bank and maintained best glide speed. I found it easier to do it on instruments with the ceiling set at 200' -- no distracting view of the ground. But it worked either way.

Skip

[Shadrach]

I keep a few lbs of aft pressure on the yoke and let it take off when it is ready which varies by weight, usually between 70 and 80mph. Gear and flaps up before it breaks 90mph. Cruise climb at 120mph which usually yields initial climb rates of ~1000fpm or more.

[ArtVandelay]

Climb and accelerate to 85kts, raise flaps, then 100kts.

[Sue Bon]

Climb and accelerate to 85 kts, raise flaps, then 90-95 KIAS for the first couple thousand feet. I don't go to 100-105 KIAS until at least 2000 feet above ground. But we have tons of noise restrictions, so it's basically always a requirement to expedite climb the first couple thousand of feet.

[jetdriven]

Between 500 and 1000 feet transition to @testwest Vz  speed which is 123 kias.  141 Mph ias. 

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Between 500 and 1000 feet transition to @testwest Vz  speed which is 123 kias.  141 Mph ias. 

What does Vz stand for? I assume this is the speed that maximizes both distance traveled and Climb over time?

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

What does Vz stand for? I assume this is the speed that maximizes both distance traveled and Climb over time?

Isn't Vz Carson's speed, as described by @testwest in his dissertation?

[Shadrach]

9 hours ago, Hank said:

Isn't Vz Carson's speed, as described by @testwest in his dissertation?

I couldn’t say. I’ve never read Norman’s dissertation.

[PT20J]

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I count say. I’ve never read Norman’s dissertation.

Ross, Norman’s paper extended Carson’s original idea from cruise flight to climbing flight. Basically, it just says that cruise climb is more efficient that maximum rate of climb and provides a specific target climb airspeed which maximizes efficiency using a particular definition of efficiency.

Here’s the procedure and the entire paper. 

IntroducingVz.pdf

[carusoam]

Also be on the look out for a presentation given by…. Mooney engineer / test pilot….

That gave insight at a MooneySummit regarding speeds and T/O procedure…

Wish I had the details…. 

Best regards,

-a-

[Hugo Gross]

This is something that I've always deliberated on. In my my M20J, I prefer to rotate at (KNOTS) 65 kts, then no runway, wheels up, then climb out at 90-100 kts unless there is an obstacle, in which case I use best rate. I like airspeed and a lower angle of attack because you can see where you are going, as well as where you might need to land in the event that the engine fails, and also less strain on the engine and better cooling. 

 

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Hugo Gross said:

This is something that I've always deliberated on. In my my M20J, I prefer to rotate at (KNOTS) 65 kts, then no runway, wheels up, then climb out at 90-100 kts unless there is an obstacle, in which case I use best rate. I like airspeed and a lower angle of attack because you can see where you are going, as well as where you might need to land in the event that the engine fails, and also less strain on the engine and better cooling. 

 

You are also less likely to stall if the engine quits. Airspeed bleeds off very quickly without power at a high deck angle, and you have to abruptly lower the nose which is hard to force yourself to do close to the ground.

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, Hugo Gross said:

then no runway, wheels up,

I think you're the first person I've seen in this discussion that remembered to raise their gear!    I see a LOT of people raising their flaps, but no gear mentioned in their climb.

[PT20J]

36 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

I think you're the first person I've seen in this discussion that remembered to raise their gear!    I see a LOT of people raising their flaps, but no gear mentioned in their climb.

Leave it down --saves wear and tear on the no-back spring 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

I think you're the first person I've seen in this discussion that remembered to raise their gear!    I see a LOT of people raising their flaps, but no gear mentioned in their climb.

My gear is usually up by treetop level, so it isn't a factor in the climb. At that point, I'm usually still accelerating towards Vx . . . .