Phillips Victory Oil Update

[Marauder]

So, I’ve pulled up and read the old threads on this oil that was introduced in 2019. We are at 3 years since it’s introduction in 2019 and I’m curious of those who made the swap from Aeroshell 15W/50 how things are going.

 

Any insights?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[jaylw314]

I've been using since it came out.  My shop only carries Aeroshell 100W, though, so at annual it changes, but 2/3 of the year it's been on Phillips Victory 100AW.  Absolutely no change in oil consumption or analysis.  It's often available on Amazon with Prime shipping for about the same cost as buying Aeroshell 100W from my shop.

I've been trying to convince my shop to carry Victory, but so far he's sticking with Aeroshell.  I haven't tried the 20W-50

Edited July 14, 2022 by jaylw314

[hammdo]

I just bring Victory oil and tempest filter to my shop @ annual. They have no problem with me doing that - or I just change it myself right before annual. Just a thought...

-Don

[jaylw314]

10 minutes ago, hammdo said:

I just bring Victory oil and tempest filter to my shop @ annual. They have no problem with me doing that - or I just change it myself right before annual. Just a thought...

-Don

AFAIK, they actually must do the oil change as part of the annual, it's one of the few things required by regulation

If my shop carried Victory it would be significantly cheaper than Aeroshell.  If you buy Victory online, you end up paying for shipping one way or another  

[hammdo]

Humm, I wonder if that has changed...

'Manufacturers' inspection checklists are more detailed and may include reference to service bulletins, and lubrication that should be done as part of the suggested servicing during an annual. The legal requirement for an annual inspection (unless required by an AD note) does not include general airframe lubrication or changing engine oil.'

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/the-annual-inspection/

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, hammdo said:

Humm, I wonder if that has changed...

'Manufacturers' inspection checklists are more detailed and may include reference to service bulletins, and lubrication that should be done as part of the suggested servicing during an annual. The legal requirement for an annual inspection (unless required by an AD note) does not include general airframe lubrication or changing engine oil.'

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/the-annual-inspection/

You're right, I think, I'd always assumed there was a specific call out.

OTOH, the general 100 hour inspection scope does include the need to check the sump drain plug, which is kind of hard to do without changing the oil 

[Hank]

My IA likes to remove and cut the oil filter, then top the oil off. No need to do a complete oil change (according to three different IAs who've looked after my Mooney with me).

[Pinecone]

Hmm, I wonder if they have a financial stake in the shop and want to have to remove your engine.

While that might work in cars, with the amount of blow by in an aircraft engine, that sounds like a recipe for an early overhaul.

[toto]

14 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

So, I’ve pulled up and read the old threads on this oil that was introduced in 2019. We are at 3 years since it’s introduction in 2019 and I’m curious of those who made the swap from Aeroshell 15W/50 how things are going.

 

Any insights?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

I was pretty unhappy with the Aeroshell 15w50 and was strongly considering the Victory, but based on a lot of posts here on MS, I started doing Phillips XC with CamGuard. It’s been a good experience so far. 

[Ragsf15e]

I thought the Victory oil had the lyc additive required only for specific engines and provided no benefit for us since we don’t have those engines?  

I do use Phillips, just not the victory, so now you got me curious?

[hammdo]

It is for specific engines but lycoming did say there are benefits for other engines, just not required.

I had an article on it somewhere but don't see it off hand...

My engine seems to like it and oil consumption is 1 at around 10 hrs (Victory and Camguard). Not everyone will agree but I'm satisfied- I would prefer Exxon Elite and no additives but...

Edit:

'Lycoming recommends this anti-scuff additive for virtually all of its aircraft engines as a salve for camshaft and lifter wear during cold starts. Phillips says the new Victory 20W-50 oil is available now.'

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/phillips-introduces-new-multi-weight-oil/

-Don

[LANCECASPER]

I would be a little concerned using Victory in a Continental with a starter adaptor, where you don’t want slippage.

[Rmnpilot]

I asked someone working at the Phillips tent about Victory vs X/C for my Lycoming TIO-540 at Oshkosh last year and was told to stick with using X/C.   When I asked a Lycoming  guy at their tent they couldn’t give me any recommendation of oil.    I don’t think the Phillips recommendation was an official comment.  Just an opinion from an employee.  I also use camguard every oil change.    

[1964-M20E]

I know some who will only use Shell 100.  I have used Phillips almost exclusively, 20-50 and 100 usually whatever is cheaper, since becoming a plane owner. 

 

Just my opinion but I feel any motor oil would work fine in our engines.  Yes there are certain specs for the oil.  I would love to have the resources to run a test with multiple different oils just to see what would happen.

[Rjfanjet]

I switched to 20W-50 Victory last oil change. No change in consumption. Just got the oil analysis back, everything is normal. Lycoming O 360 A1-D.

[PT20J]

First of all, 14 CFR 43 Appendix D is the regulatory reference for conducting an annual/100 hr inspection. The filter has to be opened and inspected -- the oil does not have to be changed.

Second, some Lycoming engines require LW-16702 by Airworthiness Directive. The reason Shell mixed it into the oil was to make it easy for those that require it to just add oil without measuring out and adding the toxic additive separately. Phillips just did the same thing.

Third, Lycoming SI 1409C approves the use of LW-16702 in all Lycoming engines but does not specifically recommend it.

Fourth, Lycoming has a policy (according to my field rep.) of not recommending any specific oils but just citing the specs that acceptable oils must meet.

I broke my factory rebuilt IO-360-A3B6 in on Aeroshell 100 mineral oil. Then I switched to Aeroshell W100 and Camguard. It was getting 8-10 hours per quart. I switched to Phillips X/C 20W50 with Camguard and it has been consistent for the last 200 hrs at 12 hours/quart. I've heard from others that oil consumption went up switching to 20W50, so it might depend on the engine condition. I wouldn't use Aeroshell 15W50 because of its synthetic component which some say is problematic. I don't know if it is or it isn't, but the original engine in the airplane had only used 15W50 and the first owner replaced the cam at around 650 hours and the cam was shot when I bought it from the second owner at 1150 hours. That was enough to steer me clear of 15W50.

LW-16702 (TCP or TPP) is actually pretty nasty stuff. I wouldn't use it (or oil containing it) unless I owned an engine that required it. Here's a good summary.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/maintenance/phillips-66-new-oil-lycoming-additive/

Skip

[Guest]

The subject of Phillips Victory oil came up some time ago.  At the time according to the MSDS for Aeroshell plus oils and the MSDS for Victory oil, the Victory oil had almost three times the Lycoming camshaft additive compared to Aeroshell, but neither met the requirements for the AD when compared to the volume of LW16702 required per quart of oil.  It may be different now, I’ve not researched it.

Clarence

[toto]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

The subject of Phillips Victory oil came up some time ago.  At the time according to the MSDS for Aeroshell plus oils and the MSDS for Victory oil, the Victory oil had almost three times the Lycoming camshaft additive compared to Aeroshell, but neither met the requirements for the AD when compared to the volume of LW16702 required per quart of oil.  It may be different now, I’ve not researched it.

Clarence

That’s a bit concerning. My engine doesn’t require the additive, but I would imagine that owners who require the additive would buy the Victory oil and believe that they’ve met the requirements. 

[Shadrach]

On 7/14/2022 at 6:28 PM, jaylw314 said:

AFAIK, they actually must do the oil change as part of the annual, it's one of the few things required by regulation

If my shop carried Victory it would be significantly cheaper than Aeroshell.  If you buy Victory online, you end up paying for shipping one way or another  

Negative on the reg. It’s part of the Mooney factory annual checklist, but that is not regulatory. There is no legal requirement to change an aircraft’s oil during annual. Indeed I have forgone oil changes at annual rather than change a filter and oil with <10hrs.

[M20F]

10 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Negative on the reg. It’s part of the Mooney factory annual checklist, but that is not regulatory. There is no legal requirement to change an aircraft’s oil during annual. Indeed I have forgone oil changes at annual rather than change a filter and oil with <10hrs.

Internal engine - for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.

I don’t see how you check the drain plug without changing the oil short of just pouring it back in after you drain it. 

[Shadrach]

7 hours ago, M20F said:

Internal engine - for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.

I don’t see how you check the drain plug without changing the oil short of just pouring it back in after you drain it. 

I guess my mechanic was a scofflaw. He chose to put his certificate on the line by opting to inspect the filter from the previous change. He is the one who said there is no need to waste fresh oil and filter. He looked at the filter media and the analysis report from the last change and moved on.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

Internal engine - for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.

I don’t see how you check the drain plug without changing the oil short of just pouring it back in after you drain it. 

That can be interpreted as applying to the fuel system, which is I think it how many IAs treat it.   In my experience most IAs (except those with shops who need the revenue generation), don't require an oil change or even require pulling the oil filter.    My former IA always just asked me what I was seeing in my oil filter inspections because he knew I was doing it.   Most IAs I know do require inspection of the fuel filters, though, which is a good idea, and the fuel sumps for leaks.

 

[M20F]

17 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That can be interpreted as applying to the fuel system, which is I think it how many IAs treat it.   In my experience most IAs (except those with shops who need the revenue generation), don't require an oil change or even require pulling the oil filter.    My former IA always just asked me what I was seeing in my oil filter inspections because he knew I was doing it.   Most IAs I know do require inspection of the fuel filters, though, which is a good idea, and the fuel sumps for leaks.

 

I ain’t the one signing the book so not really overly relevant to me.  Would seem to me though the oil screen (given word metal particles) needs to be pulled and inspected.     

[Danb]

14 CFR43 doesn’t say the filter heeds to be changed actually doesn’t mention a filter, merely checking for metal or metal particles..

[Rmnpilot]

At Oshkosh, I again asked a Phillips rep about Victory vs X/C for my TIO-540.   The gentleman I spoke with recommended to use the Victory.   I then talked to two different Lycoming reps that stated engines with flat tappets are recommended to use the additive, engines with rollers do not need to use the additive.  I told him my engine type and he recommended the additive.   I also sat through a lycoming engine class and asked the same question. They will not recommend any oil brand or additive package.  I have been using X/C with camguard.  Whether or not Victory has too much or too little of the additive is unknown.  The oil is the same price (at least at the airshow).    Once my existing oil supply runs out, I am planning to switch over to Victory and use camguard.