Kerrville crash, two lost..

[GeeBee]

2 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

If you carry a sheep or two with you on those long lonely flights, who are we to judge  . .  or speculate? 

Ever try to get a ewe by TSA?

 

[ilovecornfields]

13 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

If you carry a sheep or two with you on those long lonely flights, who are we to judge  . .  or speculate? 

Well, the sheep ain’t talking. ;-)

@GeeBee, I completely agree with you. My intent was not condone libel but to encourage healthy discourse on how similar situations might have transpired and what one could do to avoid an undesired outcome. Like I said, not to do the NTSB’s job or sling things around that are not “well thought out and respectful.”

I worked over 13 years at trauma centers so I completely agree that the media reports are often more fiction than fact. What was surprising  to me was the stuff that somehow didn’t end up in the media.

[LANCECASPER]

23 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Ever try to get a ewe by TSA?

No, what is it like?

[GeeBee]

I don't know, but I've seen "deposit your ewe here" corrals prior to security.

 

 

[DCarlton]

I hate to diverge from the raging debate, but could someone tell me why this is "normal" and acceptable.   I'm off the computer for three days and the first thing I see on MS is another deadly crash.  WTF?  Who's tracking the statistics again?  That spreadsheet?  The weekly, monthly, annual tally?  

[LANCECASPER]

12 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

I don't know, but I've seen "deposit your ewe here" corrals prior to security.

 

 

The reason sheep can't go through TSA is the TSA people have to count them on the way through . .  and they end up falling asleep.

[kortopates]

that’s a bit confusing statement since the FAA database is updated daily monday-Friday?

Kathryn’s report used to lead the FAA in reporting, but those days are over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eight8Victor]

Regarding the accident flight, the flightaware track shows a departure from runway 12, then a fairly sharp left turn and a return to the field and line up with runway 30 only to overfly 30 and went down on the approach end of 12. I’m curious why the pilot of 4267H didn’t choose to land on 30?
 

 

[steingar]

I'm wondering what kind of maintenance problem brings down a Mooney hard enough to kill both passengers?  Remember, it's a Mooney.  Even if the mill quits the thing glides fine, it does help to find a soft spot to set down in.  Given that they were over an airport I suspect those were plentiful.

[Fly Boomer]

9 hours ago, Eight8Victor said:

I’m curious why the pilot of 4267H didn’t choose to land on 30?

Altitude and speed?  I have not looked at the data, but it always looked to me like the "impossible turn" could leave you too high, too fast, or both at the point you would like to land on.  Unless you stall first.

[LANCECASPER]

A quick search of Airmen information shows Gregory Dean Thompson in Stephenville TX. Last Medical was 11/2001.

Only reason for pointing that out is that he may have been getting back into aviation and may not have had the recent training/experience to handle an emergency. It reminds me that if I'm going to be involved in aviation it can't be passive. I need to fly often enough and get regular training. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

A quick search of Airmen information shows Gregory Dean Thompson in Stephenville TX. Last Medical was 11/2001.

Only reason for pointing that out is that he may have been getting back into aviation and may not have had the recent training/experience to handle an emergency. It reminds me that if I'm going to be involved in aviation it can't be passive. I need to fly often enough and get regular training. 

Possibly, or maybe basic med?  I’m not sure exactly when it started if a 2001 medical would have qualified?

[LANCECASPER]

6 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Possibly, or maybe basic med?  I’m not sure exactly when it started if a 2001 medical would have qualified?

No, it says no basic med

[Ragsf15e]

2 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

No, it says no basic med

Oh, jeez, I didn’t realize that.  That’s a long time.

[Fly Boomer]

15 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

 I’m not sure exactly when it started if a 2001 medical would have qualified?

Legislation said you must have held a valid medical after July 14, 2006.

[A64Pilot]

14 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The reason sheep can't go through TSA is the TSA people have to count them on the way through . .  and they end up falling asleep.

TSA can’t count past ten without taking their shoes off

[Mcstealth]

12 hours ago, Eight8Victor said:

Regarding the accident flight, the flightaware track shows a departure from runway 12, then a fairly sharp left turn and a return to the field and line up with runway 30 only to overfly 30 and went down on the approach end of 12. I’m curious why the pilot of 4267H didn’t choose to land on 30?
 

 

Not knowing the level of knowledge the pilot had of KERV withstanding, 03 was second closets  but that runway has yucky terrain with sharp hills and elevation changes in the approach. No fields to put down in at on 03 either. There are fields on 12. In fact, the most "landable" fields for an off airport near KERV are in the vicinity of the accident approaching 12. But yes, 30 makes the most sense sitting here speculating about it.

[Shadrach]

I’m confused about alt readings on ADSb exchange. Does it go from “ground” to pressure altitude at lift off?  If so, he never attained anything near pattern altitude after takeoff on runway12. Then turns around and aligns with reciprocal runway 30 and crosses the threshold at ~95Kts and about 100agl. He flys just under half the runway length and then turns right about 20° at an altitude that appears to be 150-200agl and departs the runway environment as groundspeed decays from 92kts to 67kts at last return. Lots of flat, wide open, space. It looks almost like he aborted due to another aircraft on the runway though I doubt that’s the case. I just can’t imagine the reasoning for departing the runway environment midfield after returning to base.

[Shadrach]

48 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

Not knowing the level of knowledge the pilot had of KERV withstanding, 03 was second closets  but that runway has yucky terrain with sharp hills and elevation changes in the approach. No fields to put down in at on 03 either. There are fields on 12. In fact, the most "landable" fields for an off airport near KERV are in the vicinity of the accident approaching 12. But yes, 30 makes the most sense sitting here speculating about it.

So the areas to the north that appear adequately flat and level are actually no bueno?

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

So the areas to the north that appear adequately flat and level are actually no bueno?

This is a Foreflight 3D view of Runway 03 at Kerrville. There is Terrain increase plus there are some obstacles. Also you see blue ADS-B diamonds of aircraft on the ramp from just a few minutes before this post.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oap073zz2xhopl3/KERV Rwy 03 3D view.jpeg?dl=0

I don't mind taking off on 12 30 or 21 but there aren't any options if you have trouble right after take-off on 03

[Mcstealth]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

So the areas to the north that appear adequately flat and level are actually no bueno?

Correct. Go look at the IFR takeoff procedures for 03. Purty yucky. 

 

 

[Eight8Victor]

7 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

... It reminds me that if I'm going to be involved in aviation it can't be passive. I need to fly often enough and get regular training. 

+1

[Yetti]

That's the best y'all can do is 3 pages arguing about the shop and ADSB.   No eyewitness accounts, no pictures.   Worst investigators evar.

 

[Ragsf15e]

46 minutes ago, Yetti said:

That's the best y'all can do is 3 pages arguing about the shop and ADSB.   No eyewitness accounts, no pictures.   Worst investigators evar.

 

True, but we got in at least 1 argument and spoke with the ceo of Mooney.  Ntsb gonna do better?

[Yetti]

https://generalaviationnews.com/2015/08/03/the-last-link-dealing-with-the-loss-off-a-friend/