How to drink at alt?

[Will.iam]

Question for those with experience flying in the FL’s with an oxygen mask, how do you get a drink? Do you just wait until your back on a cannula or below 12,500 or do you take a quick sip between breaths with the mask pulled away?   

[GeeBee]

It's not a pressure mask. Take a sip or use a straw.

 

 

[carusoam]

Break out the chart for UToC…. Useful time of consciousness…. At altitude…

You can get good practice for changing different O2 system hardware…

You don’t get a lot of time at higher altitudes…

But, you don’t die immediately by taking off the mask…

Always good to have your O2 monitor on…. It gives you some insight of how much fuel you have in the body’s internal O2 tank…

If you are in the high 90% you may get a good minute to have a sip….

If you are starting off in the low 80s… your time to get a sip may be very limited…

The challenging aspect of removing the O2 from your face…. The longer it takes to put back on, the harder it gets to put back on…

 

Practice a lot at lower levels… don’t wait to be in the flight levels to try it the first time…

You can easily practice at and below 12.5k’ without technically running into O2 challenges….

It may even make sense to try it the first time while sitting on the ground with the engine not even running…

What hand does which task…

Where does the beverage come from, where does it go next… does you plane have the handy dandy beverage holder?

Where is my drink timer…

I bet one of those fancy Contigo water bottles with a straw can be pretty helpful…

Just remember… don’t use the ones that keep pressure inside… they can turn into an impromptu shower…

 

 

Stand by for somebody that has O2 mask experience…

PP thoughts only, I only ran out of O2 once… it was at sea level…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

I used to fly a cargo run at FL230 from KSJC to KOLS in a C-402 daily. I could take my mask off, give the airplane over to the co-pilot, go to the back, take a pee and come back before any serious hypoxia. You can easily go 5-10 minutes.

[anthonydesmet]

Lift it up, take a swig and a bite of your sandwich then fly-on…..

[Mooney Dog]

You got to stay at least 8 inches away from the throttle, then you can hit the bottle. <sarcasm> 

[LANCECASPER]

What everyone else has said.

The mistake I made my first few years with a Turbo Mooney was going up to FL200 and beyond without backup oxygen. You don't have a lot of time in the mid 20's to make decisions. Even just a can of Boost Oxygen would be better than no back up to get down to a breathable altitude. (https://www.amazon.com/Boost-Oxygen-Liters-Natural-Pack/dp/B01MQUTD5E/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3O7QRG4VKM37E&keywords=oxygen&qid=1650683579&sprefix=oxygen%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-7)

[Will.iam]

Ive got an aerox tank good for 30 mins single pilot as backup that will be good enough for me to get down from the FL’s to 12k if my main system malfunctions.  
thanks for the replies. I just remember the alt chamber was mere seconds at 30k and didn’t know how much time you really have at 20 to 25k. 

[carusoam]

Not an official resource that I can tell…

But it is a TUC chart for pilots that gives a hint about altitude and how quickly you can fall asleep if you lose your O2 system….

Above 20k’ it is in minutes…

Above 30k’ it is in seconds…

https://skybrary.aero/articles/time-useful-consciousness

 

If you are unaware that you have lost your O2… the minutes can elapse quickly…

Best regards,

-a-

[StevenL757]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:53 PM, Will.iam said:

Question for those with experience flying in the FL’s with an oxygen mask, how do you get a drink? Do you just wait until your back on a cannula or below 12,500 or do you take a quick sip between breaths with the mask pulled away?   

The latter, as I don’t use a cannula. 

[glenn reynolds]

I have found that individuals can have wildly different O2 levels (or hypoxia tolerance)  I also have found that my own tolerance varies significantly.  I often commute in my mooney Ovation for work which means I fly the exact same route at the same time of day for months at a time. This repetition means I can study stuff like my O2 levels (I also get to learn the mood (which I then overthink) of the ATC controllers on my route)  the IFR routing is 16,000 feet.  I fly with a pulse oxygen demand system (Mountain high) with an e-z boom  cannula.  I turn on the system prior to taxi as it automatically turns on O2 at five thousand feet.  I started the whole project wearing a finger O2 meter.  If you don't have one, buy one prior to your next flight!  I found that my O2 level would be fine > 95% yet my passenger could be <85% (mouth breather).  I found that my level of sleep, of coffee, hydration all impacted my O2 levels.  As I observed the variation on blood O2 levels given so many variables, I simply switch the O2 on prior to taxi and I'm good.  I do however still monitor passengers as I find they still vary too much to be safe.  In the winter it is not uncommon for me to fly at 16,000 to 18,000 for ice and again my O2 levels are fine.  I find the boom cannula to be so incredibly convenient so I fly on O2 ALWAYS unless the flight is less than twenty minutes and I'm below 5k.  If your a mouth breather you will want to stick with a mask.  I found the mask and the headset and my glasses and a hat and the mask mic cord to be too much.  

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, glenn reynolds said:

I started the whole project wearing a finger O2 meter.  If you don't have one, buy one prior to your next flight!

Been looking/thinking around this.  Which do you have?

[LANCECASPER]

The first pulse oximeter I bought over 20 years ago was over $500 and it had a finger attachment on a 6 inch wire to an electronic box. It went through a set of batteries every couple flights.  Now the ones you buy on Amazon for $15 seem to be just as accurate and provide a faster reading and the batteries last a long time.

[glenn reynolds]

I bought mine at Rite Aid, but I'm not sure it really matters.  choicemmed is the brand.  The going price is less than fifty bucks.  having a large display is nice.  what ever model you purchase, take it with you on your next doctors office visit and check against the medical unit the doctor has.  Mine is always right on.  The one I have allows you to cycle through different viewing angles which is to say you can change the display to read from any of four directions.  The down side is that it means you almost always have to cycle through a couple of views to get the right view and I'm not sure how helpful that is.  The battery in mine has lasted for about Four years which as I write this, is really impressive.  frequent flyer passengers now use the unit more than I as my headset is the only one fitted with the boom cannula (it takes some effort to keep it clean, so throw away over the head cannulas are easy for guests).  It will be helpful to use the finger pulse unit prior to flying to learn what your normal numbers are.  The first time I flew with mine I had no idea what normal blood oxygen levels are supposed to be so I'm busy texting my doctor-Dad and asking about blood o2 levels:   "dad what should normal blood O2 levels be?"  Dad: anything below 90% and I'm working on admitting the patient to the hospital, Why?"  Me: "Oh, I just bought a new blood O2 meter and I'm flying over mountains and wondering what reading levels I should be using as limits?"  Dad: "WHAT IS THE METER READING???"  me: "well I just changed up the O2 flow rate because my blood O2 level was 80, now it is 92%"  Dad: "me buying a life insurance policy on YOU seems like such a good investment"  I do drink coffee and see an effect on my O2 level based on one, two or more cups of coffee.  Dad can't find any literature to support or refute this.  I don't have any friends who smoke but would assume that would make interesting data.  I had to stop listening to books on tape during my flying commute as I was missing too many calls from ATC so now I play with my avionics and fuss with O2 and track other planes on my adsb in.  Have fun.  

[Brandt]

My biggest problem with drinking is that salt keeps falling off the rim of the glass and coating the trim wheel. 

[glenn reynolds]

2 minutes ago, Brandt said:

My biggest problem with drinking is that salt keeps falling off the rim of the glass and coating the trim wheel. 

This is yet another joy of private plane flying, you decide what size bottle(s) you want to stock the refreshment cart with.  A few months ago a friend of mine who is a professional pilot needed to relocate a business jet for work and he offered me a ride if I would drive him to the airport (The jet was being staged for an am departure out of SFO so his car needed to stay at the home base airport)  The preflight briefing for me the guest passenger was: "you can drink our booze, but please don't use the lavatory!"  I thought that was pretty funny.  SFO charged a $750 landing fee, an overnight fee of about the same and I can only imagine what they would have charged for a lavatory service fee.  Of course this could explain why the owner had such an extensive liquor cabinet on board to help ease the pain of $1,800k in fbo fees!  

[Pinecone]

If you fly at altitudes that need O2, it would be a GOOD idea to do an altitude ride.  I think the FAA still does them, but you have to go to OKC to do them.

Each person has their own hypoxia symptoms and tolerance.  And, as has been mentioned, it can change from day to day.

I did my chamber rides in the USAF.  When we did the hypoxia demo, I outlasted the patience of the instructors.  I was going well, not great, but functioning for over 5 minutes, maybe 10.  They gave up.

Years later I was flying with a couple of friends, both pilots.  I was left seat as CFII/Safety pilot.  Right seat was under the hood.  We were VFR (IFR current, but without current charts) and had to climb to 13.5 for weather (less than 30 minutes) I noticed the guy under the hood stat bobbing around.  I looked back, and the guy in the back was OUT.  I was fine.

 

 

[EricJ]

7 hours ago, Brandt said:

My biggest problem with drinking is that salt keeps falling off the rim of the glass and coating the trim wheel. 

Beer tends to go flat more quickly up there, too.

 

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

If you fly at altitudes that need O2, it would be a GOOD idea to do an altitude ride.  I think the FAA still does them, but you have to go to OKC to do them.

Each person has their own hypoxia symptoms and tolerance.  And, as has been mentioned, it can change from day to day.

I did my chamber rides in the USAF.  When we did the hypoxia demo, I outlasted the patience of the instructors.  I was going well, not great, but functioning for over 5 minutes, maybe 10.  They gave up.

Years later I was flying with a couple of friends, both pilots.  I was left seat as CFII/Safety pilot.  Right seat was under the hood.  We were VFR (IFR current, but without current charts) and had to climb to 13.5 for weather (less than 30 minutes) I noticed the guy under the hood stat bobbing around.  I looked back, and the guy in the back was OUT.  I was fine.

 

 

27 years ago when I was working on my instrument rating in a 231, my instructor wanted to demonstrate how altitude affects awareness and ability. At FL230 he had me take my mask off and do math problems and write out sentences and then do more math problems, finally after what seemed like a long time, maybe close to 10 minutes, he said to put it back on. He told me that in the same test he didn't last 3 minutes before he couldn't do simple math. He was illustrating that everyone handles it differently. Years later however, I find now that I don't have the lung capacity I used to and I fly with oxygen anytime I'm over 10,000 feet and notice that I feel a lot better after the flight.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Pinecone!

Great first post!

Now to find the MSer who was asking about O2 systems…

-a-

[carusoam]

Hey @drifter001…

See if any of this discussion helps you out… with your O2 system research.

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

I have an oxy meter but recently bought the new Apple Watch version 7. I know earlier versions of the watch were not good at O2 measurements but my 7 version is always 1 % up or down from my oxy meter or it gives a could not measure warning which is usually from me moving my arm around too much when it is automatically taking a measurement. If I start the reading and hold my arm still it works. Over the past couple of months every low reading would correspond to a commercial flight I took or flew my Mooney above 10k. Sitting up straight and taking deep breaths can raise my O2 by 5 to 7 % points alone. Bad posture and shallow breathing = lower O2 readings for me. 

[carusoam]

Nice pirep on the Iwatch will.i!

Thanks for sharing the details…

Best regards,

-a-

[MisfitSELF]

Many hours of experience in the F-16 and a cockpit at 40k feet (where cabin pressure may approach 25k feet).  I'd just drop my mask, take a sip from my water bottle, then put my mask back up.  Never had an issue.  If I had my mask down for a couple of minutes, I may feel some hypoxia symptoms.

[tgardnerh]

I outlasted the patience of the instructors.  I was going well, not great, but functioning for over 5 minutes, maybe 10.  They gave up.

I'm curious--do you also have a high alcohol tolerance?
When I lived at sea level I found 8,000 ft was about equivalent to one beer for me, and one beer is enough that my driving a car would be reckless, both of which I gather are unusually low tolerances.
After moving to Salt Lake my tolerance for altitude seems to have improved whole my tolerance for alcohol has further diminished.


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