4/20/22 Message from Jonny/Service Center

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

 A personal opinion is that I wouldn’t expect new aircraft or gross weight increases etc soon, those are very expensive propositions and frankly trying to do too much too soon has been the death knell of many an aircraft manufacturer, it’s easy to get overextended all you have to do is listen to the wrong people who forecast great things, all you have to do is offer x and the money will roll in, there is a lot of pent up demand etc.

These guys have to get their feet under them before they can walk, and new aircraft and gross weight increases are definitely running tasks.

I am very pleased hearing they have a service center, I hope it’s a Certified Repair Station, but if we support them then maybe over time they can start crawling and hopefully walk then run as funds allow. If we don’t, then they may not survive, their survival is to a great extent in our hands

Having been a manufacturer I can tell you it’s tough, and very easy to find yourself on credit hold by suppliers, and yet I can also tell you that can be overcome, but it doesn’t happen overnight, it takes time to build back trust.

My story is we bought a defunct manufacturer, breathed life into it and over a few years became quite successful and accomplished a lot, new models, huge gross weight increases etc., the President / Owner died suddenly and his silent business partner came in to run things and took our good book of business and goodwill we spent years building and leveraged it to borrow huge sums of money thinking the more he spent, the more he would make, and yes he ran it into bankruptcy, so I’ve seen the slow growth to success and the decline to bankruptcy. One is hard, the other all you have to do is listen to Cronies who tack themselves to you building your ego for their own profit.

Sorry I’m still a little bitter I guess.

 

Thanks for this post. Yes, this all true. The bigger you build, the higher the risk. We are working to stand up the company building parts and the service center so we can withstand the tough times and not need capital infusions every month. Once we do, we will weigh the other risks and garner the necessary investment. But for right now, the key is to keep Mooney alive so we have a factory behind our existing planes!

PS - I just hope I don't meet the same fate as your CEO!

Thanks again!

 

Jonny

[Jonny]

5 minutes ago, donkaye said:

I did just that last October.  After having an issue with 4 broken inner gear door rods on my airplane over a two year period of time and never knowing where, when, or if it would break again, maybe in the middle of nowhere, I headed down to Kerrville to see if they might be able to find the problem.  They found the problem pretty quickly, and I can't fault my excellent local MSC for not being able to locate it.  It turns out it was a 30 year old issue associated with the brake upgrade kit I had purchased several years earlier, and had the person working on my plane in Kerrville not remembered the problem from 30 years ago, I'm not sure I ever would have been able to get it fixed.  They even still had the repair part on hand.  With the fix, to date knock on wood, I have not had another broken rod.

Hi Don. Good to hear from you. And thanks for relating that story. The folks in Kerrville are good people and they really care. Your support is always greatly appreciated.

 

Jonny

[Schllc]

The mooney service center would be my preference for any repairs or service to my plane.

The people there love mooney's, they care, and they are down to earth rock solid folks.  I have nothing but good things to say, and if you need an annual or service, you are missing a great opportunity if you don't check with Mooney to see if they can fit you in.  If we get enough business going in an and out we can probably find a lot of ride sharing...

I will bring mine in for annual when do for sure.

[craigsteffen]

20 hours ago, Jonny said:

Hey Folks:

It's been a while since I've posted and for that I apologize.

I've been working diligently to keep Mooney alive and kicking and to put us in a position to become self-sustaining so we can concentrate on the more important stuff:  Developing the retrofit landing gear to increase useful load and building brand new Ultras

....

We look forward to hearing from you and I thank you for your continued support.

Warmly,

Jonny

 

 

 

Hi Jonny, 

I sold my Mooney last September, so I'm not directly effected by this any more, but since you specifically asked for our input, here's my take as a very loyal Mooney owner from 2012 to 2021.  

The Mooney aircraft generally were superbly engineered, fly beautifully when maintained, and have a very high level of support and loyalty from owners and pilots.  However, the several years when it was difficult and slow to get parts have started to erode that affection.  To keep Mooney healthy as a company, and as a brand, I think you and the company need to understand that your biggest asset are the owners and pilots, and the aircraft that remain flying.  The company has neglected that asset very badly over the last several years, and you are going to have to invest time to build it back up if you're going to survive long-term.  

Short-term parts orders are a very key part of this, but you know about that.  It took six months for me to get a new trim system, and that 8-month annual wasn't the *only* reason I sold my plane, but it was a big one.  

After you get parts flowing, I think the biggest hole you have is a lot of Mooneys are IFR-legal but it's just so expensive/complicated to get them with modern avionics, including autopilot.  Up until very recently, there wasn't really any option less than $30k for an autopilot that was worth having.  Now there is, or almost is.  I think it would be smart to work deals with vendors to create a streamlined, factory-installed modernization program to take the old Mooneys that fly well but don't have upgraded avionics, to bring them all up to snuff in one step.  

My druthers would be to have Aspen+Avidyne+Stratus+TruTrak, but I imagine corporate-wise, it would make sense to go all-Garmin (barf).  In either case, if you had a factory-approved setup that you could install all at once, you could offer discounts because of scale, and it would be guaranteed to work because it would be the same setup in every plane, and it wouldn't fall on individual avionics shops to work out all the individual kinks.  

If you did something like this, suddenly the fleet wouldn't be divided between old-but-barely-capable and nice-but-too-expensive.  Doing something like this would make a steady stream of people bringing you their planes for upgrades.  

One other major reason that I sold my Mooney was that I just couldn't get an autopilot for it, short of spending as much as a new engine.  Trutrak dragged their feet for four years for Mooney certification (which may be in place now, I can't tell).  

Good luck.  I hope you and the company can make a run of it this time.  But understand--if you concentrate on selling new planes, you will fail.  It will take too much time to build up to sustainable.  Concentrate on the existing fleet that love the planes, get those airframes taken care of (and upgraded even!) and only THEN make the move to spin up new stock.  

I look forward to stopping by the Mooney booth at Oshkosh this year.  If you sat around and talked to owners and pilots yourself, that would be a fantastic gesture.  

(I have a youtube channel, that among other things has featured me flying my Mooney.  If you have things to announce, or if you have a booth at Oshkosh that's worth seeing, I'd love to feature it on my channel.  "Figuring stuff out dot net".  Search for "Mooney IFR Airventure departure" and my first video comes up.)

Craig Steffen

[Boilermonkey]

I know it's not the way things are done currently, but it's 2022 and the market is different.  Please make all parts available online for direct purchase. 

Multitiered distribution makes no sense.  We all still need to have an A&P or IA sign of on any repairs, but having my A&P spend considerable time looking for parts, waiting on a service center for something rare, or going through Lasar (as much as I like them) is antiquated.  Don't make them call, or submit a request.   Just put it all out there and enable people to maintain their airplanes and give you business.

[Culver LFA]

Hello Jonny,

Your update is exciting to hear, thank you for your direct contact with the community.

Just a low priority idea to add to your huge list of more important things to do, Maule has been hosting an annual fly-in at the factory for the last 10 years or so, it seems to be a pretty popular event.  I can tell you I would be excited to have more Mooney specific events to attend and having something at the Mooney factory would be pretty great.  I think if forum members here saw what you have going on and what the factory has to offer it would be a big boost in moral and the word would spread fast that Mooney is still in the game. Do I even dare suggest a $100 cover charge per person to help keep the lights on?  I'd be happy to pay it. I think it would be a great experience and worth it for the Mooney fellowship (and maybe some lunch).

[rbp]

9 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

I know it's not the way things are done currently, but it's 2022 and the market is different.  Please make all parts available online for direct purchase. 

Multitiered distribution makes no sense.  We all still need to have an A&P or IA sign of on any repairs, but having my A&P spend considerable time looking for parts, waiting on a service center for something rare, or going through Lasar (as much as I like them) is antiquated.  Don't make them call, or submit a request.   Just put it all out there and enable people to maintain their airplanes and give you business.

I would aff that having a part sourcing capability would allow existing vendors of mooney parts to sell through the system, And it would centralize the supply chain, Allow a mooney to understand which parts are in demand

[Schllc]

11 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

I know it's not the way things are done currently, but it's 2022 and the market is different.  Please make all parts available online for direct purchase. 

Multitiered distribution makes no sense.  We all still need to have an A&P or IA sign of on any repairs, but having my A&P spend considerable time looking for parts, waiting on a service center for something rare, or going through Lasar (as much as I like them) is antiquated.  Don't make them call, or submit a request.   Just put it all out there and enable people to maintain their airplanes and give you business.

My understanding is that they cannot do this for liability reasons.  It certainly isn't to make it difficult or frustrate owners.  its to maintain traceabilty and avoid liability for unauthorized or owner repairs.

[N231BN]

My understanding is that they cannot do this for liability reasons.  It certainly isn't to make it difficult or frustrate owners.  its to maintain traceabilty and avoid liability for unauthorized or owner repairs.

Just this morning I ordered parts direct from Textron, via their website.

[MooneyMitch]

10 minutes ago, Culver LFA said:

Hello Jonny,

Your update is exciting to hear, thank you for your direct contact with the community.

Just a low priority idea to add to your huge list of more important things to do, Maule has been hosting an annual fly-in at the factory for the last 10 years or so, it seems to be a pretty popular event.  I can tell you I would be excited to have more Mooney specific events to attend and having something at the Mooney factory would be pretty great.  I think if forum members here saw what you have going on and what the factory has to offer it would be a big boost in moral and the word would spread fast that Mooney is still in the game. Do I even dare suggest a $100 cover charge per person to help keep the lights on?  I'd be happy to pay it. I think it would be a great experience and worth it for the Mooney fellowship (and maybe some lunch).

Yes, yes, yes, of course!!!  I sincerely believe we want the Mooney to prevail and an event such as this would be absolutely terrific!!! Hope.... 

[Schllc]

1 minute ago, N231BN said:

5 minutes ago, Schllc said:

My understanding is that they cannot do this for liability reasons.  It certainly isn't to make it difficult or frustrate owners.  its to maintain traceabilty and avoid liability for unauthorized or owner repairs.

Just this morning I ordered parts direct from Textron, via their website.

This was what was explained to me when I asked Mooney the same question.  Can't claim to be an expert on these things, just repeating what I was told by the factory....

Could it have to do with who makes the part or what the part is? 

 

[Culver LFA]

Just now, MooneyMitch said:

Yes, yes, yes, of course!!!  I sincerely believe we want the Mooney to prevail and an event such as this would be absolutely terrific!!! Hope.... 

Plus it would be a great opportunity for us to show our great appreciation to the Mooney employees, past and present.  They have had some ups and downs over the years, I bet they would like to see the fruits of their labor

[craigsteffen]

26 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

I know it's not the way things are done currently, but it's 2022 and the market is different.  Please make all parts available online for direct purchase. 

Multitiered distribution makes no sense.  We all still need to have an A&P or IA sign of on any repairs, but having my A&P spend considerable time looking for parts, waiting on a service center for something rare, or going through Lasar (as much as I like them) is antiquated.  Don't make them call, or submit a request.   Just put it all out there and enable people to maintain their airplanes and give you business.

Yes.  Direct web stores aren't hard or expensive to set up.  You could also set up a wishlist tool on your web site for people to put in requests, and then you could list the currently outstanding requests, so that people could add theirs to the list.  

[MooneyMitch]

6 minutes ago, Culver LFA said:

Plus it would be a great opportunity for us to show our great appreciation to the Mooney employees, past and present.  They have had some ups and downs over the years, I bet they would like to see the fruits of their labor

Ditto again!  Absolutely a great idea you’ve presented here!! Love it!! Thank you

[craigsteffen]

20 minutes ago, Culver LFA said:

Hello Jonny,

Your update is exciting to hear, thank you for your direct contact with the community.

Just a low priority idea to add to your huge list of more important things to do, Maule has been hosting an annual fly-in at the factory for the last 10 years or so, it seems to be a pretty popular event.  I can tell you I would be excited to have more Mooney specific events to attend and having something at the Mooney factory would be pretty great.  I think if forum members here saw what you have going on and what the factory has to offer it would be a big boost in moral and the word would spread fast that Mooney is still in the game. Do I even dare suggest a $100 cover charge per person to help keep the lights on?  I'd be happy to pay it. I think it would be a great experience and worth it for the Mooney fellowship (and maybe some lunch).

Yes.  I went to the MAPA events for several years, but I never managed to get my Mooney there (I was close one time but had to drive in in a rental due to weather).  The airport is a great venue, the factory is great to see and tour.  You could set it up for the fall, and have flyers at Oshkosh this year.  

[N231BN]

Could it have to do with who makes the part or what the part is? 
 

That is possible.

[kortopates]

39 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

I know it's not the way things are done currently, but it's 2022 and the market is different.  Please make all parts available online for direct purchase. 

Multitiered distribution makes no sense.  We all still need to have an A&P or IA sign of on any repairs, but having my A&P spend considerable time looking for parts, waiting on a service center for something rare, or going through Lasar (as much as I like them) is antiquated.  Don't make them call, or submit a request.   Just put it all out there and enable people to maintain their airplanes and give you business.

You may not agree, but I think Mooney also really needs their network of MSC's to keep the fleet healthy. And we should support their network via parts purchases. Personally, I 'd rather not see the factory bothered by endless owner calls on parts questions. I'd rather they focus on what they do best, making and procuring the parts and their distribution. The MSC are much better able to absorb retail sales questions and purchases. I don't know if all MSC's have the same parts capabilities; but many have direct access to the factory with respect to their current inventory, pricing and lead time.  The factory really can't support the worldwide Mooney fleet all by themselves.  

[Boilermonkey]

10 minutes ago, kortopates said:

You may not agree, but I think Mooney also really needs their network of MSC's to keep the fleet healthy. And we should support their network via parts purchases. Personally, I 'd rather not see the factory bothered by endless owner calls on parts questions. I'd rather they focus on what they do best, making and procuring the parts and their distribution. The MSC are much better able to absorb retail sales questions and purchases. I don't know if all MSC's have the same parts capabilities; but many have direct access to the factory with respect to their current inventory, pricing and lead time.  The factory really can't support the worldwide Mooney fleet all by themselves.  

It's currently broken.  The response times and supply are ridiculous, even before the current supply chain issues.  Moreover the MSC have a long wait lists to get work done, I don't think the parts inquires or sales should be a cornerstone of their business.   

What the current distribution system does is frustrate owners, frustrate A&Ps, reduce supply, and put the fleet at risk of improper/sufficient maintenance.

 

[A64Pilot]

2 hours ago, Jonny said:

 

PS - I just hope I don't meet the same fate as your CEO!

Thanks again!

 

Jonny

He was my Brother, he died suddenly at age 60, but that was quite awhile ago. 12 years I think.

But if guys don’t mind I’ll try to address some of the questions, and hope I don’t step on toes.

1. The factory has advantages that no service center could, they are the manufacturer and the FAA recognizes this and therefore they can effect repairs that say I as an IA cannot and I can do anything a normal service center can, then they have every drawing that exists, and may even have an Engineer on staff that has his Structural DER, to say nothing of the ability to manufacture parts, once it’s in their center they are motivated to get it out so they can get paid, so I’d suspect if that’s your airplane it’s pretty high on the parts list. So my guess would be that it’s entirely possible that the fastest way to get your airplane back may be with the factory.

2. Direct sales, a Manufacturer has to protect their service centers, who often of course get parts at a discount and may sell at a small discount themselves.

I would sell parts direct, but would tell the customer that Mid Continent would sell them same parts at usually a 10% discount, usually that was enough to get them to order from Mid-Continent. Now I had a problem that I never got help resolving and that was the Service Centers wanted to stock nothing really, they wanted their cut of course but wanted to order from me and not stock anything of any consequence, now understand my priority was new aircraft and the Service centers should stock at least high volume items, but they didn’t want to tie up the money of course, and the factory got the bad name for slow parts, especially obsolete ones. I never got that fixed.

I suspicion maybe some of that is occurring now?

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

This was what was explained to me when I asked Mooney the same question.  Can't claim to be an expert on these things, just repeating what I was told by the factory....

Could it have to do with who makes the part or what the part is? 

 

Many times a factory orders off the shelf parts all of the time, our throttle cables, prop and condition cables we got from a boat cable manufacturer in Florida, I think our elevator trim lever was some kind of lawnmower part or something, the brake master cylinders came from NAPA, they were for an old Studerbaker truck.

However even if you knew where they came from you couldn’t put them in an airplane, as what made them aircraft parts was when we inducted them into our QC system, that’s where traceability etc started.

Now for aircraft parts we ordered like tires, wheels, brakes, props, starter / generators etc etc, those you could buy direct, unless they had an aircraft specific part number, then you couldn’t, because they were our part, supplied by someone else, but my part.

It gets more complicated of course, if for example the boat throttle cables we had made for us, I could have given him “Direct Ship” authority, then he could have sold direct, but I would have been a fool to do so as I would still have all liability, but never saw the part.

So as with everything, it depends. There’s no simple answer.

Edited April 21, 2022 by A64Pilot

[rbp]

40 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Many times a factory orders off the shelf parts all of the time, our throttle cables, prop and condition cables we got from a boat cable manufacturer in Florida, I think our elevator trim lever was some kind of lawnmower part or something, the brake master cylinders came from NAPA, they were for an old Studerbaker truck.

However even if you knew where they came from you couldn’t put them in an airplane, as what made them aircraft parts was when we inducted them into our QC system, that’s where traceability etc started.

Now for aircraft parts we ordered like tires, wheels, brakes, props, starter / generators etc etc, those you could buy direct, unless they had an aircraft specific part number, then you couldn’t, because they were our part, supplied by someone else, but my part.

It gets more complicated of course, if for example the boat throttle cables we had made for us, I could have given him “Direct Ship” authority, then he could have sold direct, but I would have been a fool to do so as I would still have all liability, but never saw the part.

So as with everything, it depends. There’s no simple answer.

I’m sure I’m gonna get blasted for suggesting this but there is quite a simple solution which is to use the “Fulfillment by Amazon” program. 
 

FBA Is a program whereby sellers can ship their inventory to Amazon,  create product listings, and Amazon will handle all of the fulfillment, including sales,  (2-day) shipping, customer service,  and returns. It could be used by MSCs, independent shops, and owners. FBA does inventory management, sales tax, and everything else.  
 

It would modernize the entire supply chain of parts and accessories 

 

third-party suppliesrs could even ship directly to Amazon and never have to see the Kerrville warehouse   

 

https://www.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/b?node=13245485011

[Marauder]

You may not agree, but I think Mooney also really needs their network of MSC's to keep the fleet healthy. And we should support their network via parts purchases. Personally, I 'd rather not see the factory bothered by endless owner calls on parts questions. I'd rather they focus on what they do best, making and procuring the parts and their distribution. The MSC are much better able to absorb retail sales questions and purchases. I don't know if all MSC's have the same parts capabilities; but many have direct access to the factory with respect to their current inventory, pricing and lead time.  The factory really can't support the worldwide Mooney fleet all by themselves.  

Paul - I think supporting the MSCs also means providing governance over them. I have been to some of the MSCs over the years and some of them certainly have deteriorated to a point their service isn’t on par with some of the non-MSCs. Some of this is due to the mechanic shortage. More of it is probably due to who is looking after their quality?

As for the parts situation. Look at what happened to Narco when they tried to pull all service & parts back to Narco. Bendix King has tried to do the same.

Even Garmin has opened some of their product lines to non-Garmin shops.

Restricting parts sales to MSCs will continue to put an overhead on the parts as the owner will ask their local shop to acquire the parts and the shops in turn will add their own overhead.

There are plenty of opportunities for Mooney to generate revenues from retrofits. How many owners would like to upgrade their yokes to the modern style? How many have asked for rudder pedal extenders?

I was in this game (not aviation related). They need to generate sustainable revenues to secure additional venture monies to get the manufacturing of new planes back fully.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Boilermonkey]

MSCs should focus on providing services above and beyond what a typical shop can though Mooney specific knowledge, experience, and services.  My airplane is at one now for that reason!   

Parts should not be a part of that equation.  It just adds complexity, cost, time, and people seeking alternatives.    Moreover most of the time I need a part it's not scheduled and I'm not at an MSC.   What value is an MSC offering if an A&P can diagnose the issue, look up the required parts/fix in the Mooney documents, and then has to go through a MSC to get the part...nada.   Give the fleet access to the complete catalog of parts directly from the factory and you'll increase loyalty, safety, and value.

[LANCECASPER]

With a streamlined crew Mooney is doing well to be able to deal with a few dozen MSCs for parts distribution. Not a chance do they have the staff to deal with 7000 owners or 100's of A&Ps for direct parts sales. If you think wait time is long now, try taking the few people responsible for distribution and spreading them thinner yet. And no way do we want them to give part of their profit away to Amazon for distribution. They don't have the parts to distribute anyway.

Go back to the first post, summed up in one sentence, capital is the issue. If possible and practical, help them increase revenue by using the Factory Service Center when possible and let's not complicate this. As they secure more capital then they can produce or procure more parts, etc. etc. 

If anything, getting loyal MSCs on-board to put up some capital to inventory some crucial parts could help. Rather than only ordering when they have an immediate need. This could help with economy of scale by buying larger quantities of parts that have to be made by other companies (ie Eaton no back spring).

[rbp]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

And no way do we want them to give part of their profit away to Amazon for distribution.

It’s not about giving away profits  to Amazon. 
 

it’s about reducing costs  by outsourcing fulfillment, which not a core part of the business