Clear ice photos

[Little Dipper]

Picked up about 1/4 inch of clear ice descending into Erie yesterday.    TKS handled it well.   I know this sounds stupid but the clouds seem wetter in Erie, Youngstown and East of Cleveland than they do anyplace else.

Norm, N995K, M20R

 

[StevenL757]

Norm,

First of all - great pictures.  That actually appears to be rime, tho.  With clear/SLD, you may or may not be able to discern a darker greyish tint to your TKS panels from the cockpit than a panel not coated with anything.  You also won't see as much of a "frosty" appearance to the deposits.  I've had two encounters in my previous Ovation with SLD.  Although running the system prior to entry, the panels became saturated and overwhelmed within two minutes of entering the conditions.  The only ways I could tell were...

• A dramatic (a rate of 8-10 knots per minute) reduction in airspeed in the climb
• The change in panel shade/color that I mentioned above, and...
• Several bubbles moving around which were wedged in between the TKS panels and an outer icing layer covering them on both wings, which didn't melt with the application of the system.

The way out was a course and altitude change to get me back to conditions where I could either regroup and come up with another plan to continue, or land and call it a day. 

I'm sure you're aware that although TKS is powerful-enough to melt just about anything thrown its way, SLD is another story, and actually will defeat a TKS system more often than help you.  I've done KBKL (Burke in Ohio) to various places in NY frequently (as has @aviatoreb) during every season, and the weather really can - and does - get interesting.  You and your airplane handled this instance very well.

[exM20K]

That horizontal stabilizer picture is not great.  I’ve found that sharp edge to be a great ice collector, and the tail is working hard in the landing configuration.. maintaining 120 KIAS and no more than approach flaps when landing is critical to flight safety.  I practice ILS approaches at or above that speed and carry as much as 100 KIAS across the fence.  I doubt there is a long enough runway to stop an approach flap configured Mooney at 120 kts in the round out….

-dan

[Marauder]

Picked up about 1/4 inch of clear ice descending into Erie yesterday.    TKS handled it well.   I know this sounds stupid but the clouds seem wetter in Erie, Youngstown and East of Cleveland than they do anyplace else.
Norm, N995K, M20R
 

I lived for years in Buffalo. The moisture that comes out of Lake Erie is pretty impressive. It’s responsible for a lot of the lake effect snow we used to get. It also caused some unusual icing patterns in flight.

Another interesting thing that would happen on really cold winters would be that the lake would freeze over. That would minimize the lake effect snow but allowed some really cold Artic wind to hit the region.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Boilermonkey]

Thanks for sharing, very good pics.

[David Lloyd]

Every trip to Cleveland has involved icing.  Every one.  I'm sure there are lots of nice days, I seen some.  Still every time, ice either going or coming.  Lot of moisture coming from the lakes.  Agree, looks like rime, maybe some mixed.  

[N9656G]

Thanks for sharing. Looks like a nice post flight popsicle. 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

Norm,

First of all - great pictures.  That actually appears to be rime, tho.  With clear/SLD, you may or may not be able to discern a darker greyish tint to your TKS panels from the cockpit than a panel not coated with anything.  You also won't see as much of a "frosty" appearance to the deposits.  I've had two encounters in my previous Ovation with SLD.  Although running the system prior to entry, the panels became saturated and overwhelmed within two minutes of entering the conditions.  The only ways I could tell were...

• A dramatic (a rate of 8-10 knots per minute) reduction in airspeed in the climb
• The change in panel shade/color that I mentioned above, and...
• Several bubbles moving around which were wedged in between the TKS panels and an outer icing layer covering them on both wings, which didn't melt with the application of the system.

The way out was a course and altitude change to get me back to conditions where I could either regroup and come up with another plan to continue, or land and call it a day. 

I'm sure you're aware that although TKS is powerful-enough to melt just about anything thrown its way, SLD is another story, and actually will defeat a TKS system more often than help you.  I've done KBKL (Burke in Ohio) to various places in NY frequently (as has @aviatoreb) during every season, and the weather really can - and does - get interesting.  You and your airplane handled this instance very well.

Thanks for the call out.

My TKS is fantastic and it gives me tremendous extra peace of mind given yes where I live in upstate NY - when I use it as I am supposed to - an inadvertent system (which otherwise has all the same flow rates etc as a fiki system).  But I remember one incident clearly - an unforecast ice day - when there was ice - and so I immediately switched to get out of ice mode - but there was like 2 min in there in that cloud that I still don't understand why but it was like an ice rain cell inside of what seemed like it should be a dry cloud - and it rained in there and in like 2 min I got splattered with a bunch of ice - that briefly was more than the tks was washing way (initially it was on anti-ice rather than de-ice since I didn't immediately understand I was in ice). It was overwhelming the system for a brief period. like 2 min it took to get out. and once I was out the tks did catch up and clear it out.  But from that brief 2 min yeah there was a bunch of ice on the wing tips, on the nose cone, etc.  More than I see in your picture.  A sanity lesson.  Ice---bad.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I haven't had ice of any consequence in decades. When I was young and bulletproof and the rules were different. I got ice quire a few times. Some times way more than you show. This was in a Mooney with no deice.

The ice you have is rime. it consists of droplets that freeze on impact. The clear ice I had is liquid water that hits the airframe and freezes as it is running back. Rime will usually sublimate if you get out of the iceing conditions especially if you can get into the sunshine. You will usually land with the clear ice still on.

The fastest way to get out of icing is a 180 degree turn. You know for sure that there is no ice back there, you were just there a few seconds ago.

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

6 hours ago, Little Dipper said:

 I know this sounds stupid but the clouds seem wetter in Erie, Youngstown and East of Cleveland than they do anyplace else.

I totally believe you; not stupid at all.

On a trip to Pittsburgh a few years ago, I flew at 11,000' for the more favorable winds and to stay above clouds.  Eventually, the clouds snuck up to my altitude and left a really strange spiky pattern on my wings' leading edges.  That, (and maybe shifting winds), slowed us down by about 20-25 kts, so I descended a few thousand feet.  The ice went away, but the worse winds still cost us.

BTW, bad icing will leave a lollipop on your spinner.  You do not want to see that, and better have some serious anti/de-ice equipment onboard.

[carusoam]

Great ice pics LD!

Thanks for sharing them.

Yes, the Great Lakes are famous for filling the skies with tons of water…. Making Buffalo famous for its six foot snow falls…. 
 

Let’s invite @Scott Dennstaedt, PhD to stop by and have a look… (ice deposits on a TKS’d Mooney wing…)

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Scott Dennstaedt, PhD]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:29 AM, Little Dipper said:

Picked up about 1/4 inch of clear ice descending into Erie yesterday.    TKS handled it well.   I know this sounds stupid but the clouds seem wetter in Erie, Youngstown and East of Cleveland than they do anyplace else.

Norm,

Appears you descended through a stratocu deck into Erie.  These clouds tend to have a high liquid water content near the tops especially in the warmer subfreezing temperature regime.  With snow on the ground in Erie, it's even more likely you'll run into larger drop sizes.  

KERI 232024Z AUTO 31011G17KT 1 3/4SM -SN SCT013 BKN018 OVC024 M03/M07 A3036 RMK AO2 SNB1958 P0000 T10331067
KERI 231951Z 32012G16KT 10SM BKN017 OVC024 M02/M07 A3034 RMK AO2 SNB26E37 SLP284 P0000 T10221067
KERI 231851Z 30013KT 10SM OVC015 M02/M07 A3033 RMK AO2 SNE32 SLP278 P0000 T10221067

The NAM forecast valid at 19Z shows that fairly warm cloud tops were likely around 6,000 ft MSL. The clouds tended to deepen a bit to maybe 7,000 ft by 20Z. In this area it's not unusual sometimes to see high liquid water content right at the top of that inversion (~5,000 ft) even if snow is reaching the surface.  With deeper systems (> 12,000 feet) from lake effect snow, it's not unusual to see even drizzle-sized drops at the tops.  

In fact, there was a fairly high area of supercooled liquid water contents at 5,000 feet along the last part of your route.  This is about 0.2 to 0.25 g/m^3 which is pretty high.  

[carusoam]

Great added details Dr. D!

Thanks for sharing the data.

Go MS and EZWxBrief!

Best regards,

-a-

[Patrick Lyons]

I Read a lot on Mooney Space and respond infrequently. I am not a youngster will be 8 decades in August of " 22. in excess of 7000 hours P.SEL. & ME turbo w Altitude.

Yes, since 1967 in Mooney's also 14 years Turbo Mistsy MU-2. Yes (SFAR 108 ) is stricter than a Type rating.. insurance normally demands refresh annually.

Best advice on this topic came from N201MK Turbo. 

If you encounter ice in a Mooney... please !  " KNOW it was coming "  Be advised NOT surprised.  Inform ATC immediately.

Turn around, then build  your plan. 

Please fly safe,  not an instructor .. I am still a student in training...

[aviatoreb]

I also hit some clear ice today.  Plus intense snow and almost white out conditions for awhile.  See the clear ice bits hanging off my hat?  (Frozen sweat?) Luckily I was cross country skiing so no metal was bent.