Near Miss With Ground Vehicles at KCRS

[alextstone]

I need some feedback.  I know I made an error but I also feel that the system let me down and the results could have been tragic.  Here's the context:

My wife and I were on a flight from Double Eagle II airport (KAEG) back to our home field, Hattiesburg Laurel regional (KPIB) airport yesterday.  We chose a cruising altitude of FL210 to take advantage of a 35 kt tailwind and thus make it back without a fuel stop (approximately 4.5 hrs flight).  We were both wearing masks and connected to the O2D2 oxygen delivery system.  She complained of symptoms of hypoxia which were then confirmed with a pulse oximeter (78%).  I, however, was fine (I wear a continuous monitor-94%).  I grabbed one of the TWO backup O2 sources we have one hand, started an expedited descent to 9K and checked in with the controller.  So far, so good.  Now that the FIRST incident was behind us, I checked the flight time and fuel to destination and I determined that we will need to make a fuel stop.  I then selected Corsica, TX (KCRS) as an alternate and requested the same of the controller.  

Upon nearing KCRS, I checked weather on ATIS and NOTAM's on ForeFlight.  That's where I went wrong, because when I Packed for my flight in ForeFlight, the area covered did not include the diversion airport, (location marked in the image below)

 

Continuing with the events that unfolded...I stayed with Waco Approach until approximately 20 miles out.  I had the airport in sight so I cancelled IFR.    I lined up for a left downwind to 32.  Upon flaring for the touchdown, I noticed a service vehicle with flashing lights driving toward me on the parallel taxiway...."that's odd", I thought.  During taxi up to the self serve pumps, I noticed some other service vehicles in an area that was marked with barricades on the ramp ahead of me and one that was parked in a grassy area beside the FBO.  As I got out, I saw the vehicle that had been parked driving up toward my plane.  The man who got out said "Hey, did you know that this airport is closed for re-striping the runway?"  "No, really?  I did not see that in the NOTAM's anywhere and the controller did not mention it"., I replied.  He then said, "Well, we are reopening now so go ahead and fuel up.   Just be sure to keep a good lookout for vehicles when you leave."

We fueled, taxied for departure and lined up on runway 32.  That's when things got really strange.  As I am doing my final checks, I looked down the runway and I see a vehicle with headlights on but no other lights (unlike those of the service vehicles) facing me at the other end.  I was frankly perplexed at this moment, so I just sat there idling.  The vehicle then accelerates directly toward me on the runway and literally passes off my left wing and disappears behind me at a high rate of speed estimated to be 40-60 mph.  He was driving a private vehicle, not a service truck,  Notice from the taxi diagram that he must have left the pavement and driven onto the grass

 

In that moment, I looked down the runway and I saw that it was clear so I decided to depart.  As I began to accelerate, the same car appeared on the parallel taxiway traveling at an increasing speed, obviously in a drag race with me.  We took off.  

Then, in an effort to understand the NOTAM issue, I searched for NOTAM's on my GTN750 (I have ADSB in via a GDL88) and there it was!  A NOTAM(D) for runway 32 - 14 closure until 7pm local!  

Here's the FAA's definition of a NOTAM (D):

 

Notice the word "Unverified"  What the heck is unverified about scheduled airport closures?  Also, why was there no "X" at the end of the runway over the "32" marking?   

Here's the latest information from ForeFlight on NOTAMS.  In theory, had I Packed for a flight that included the destination airport, I should have seen a NOTAM (lesson learned):

Soooo, I decided to do a search in the FAA NOTAM's webpage, covering the entire month of January https://notams.aim.faa.gov/notamSearch/nsapp.html#/results

The runway closure NOTAM is not listed.  Hmm.  Either I am searching incorrectly or there really is a problem here.  In any case, I've learned some really valuable lessons:

1.  Always cross check the live ADSB- In data for NOTAMS vs relying on Foreflight.

2.  Controllers cannot be expected to fill in gaps where I make mistakes.

3.  Idiots are sometimes allowed "inside the fence" at airports where security is non-existent. 

4.  As pilot in command, I am ultimately responsible for the safety of the flight and on this flight, I fell somewhat short.

 

As an aside, after reading this, in your opinion, is there any benefit to reporting this unsafe condition at this airport to the FAA?  Am I just inviting un-welcomed scrutiny to no benefit if I do?

Humbled Again,

Alex

KCRS-FF-TaxiDiagram.pdf

[slowflyin]

I would  file an ASRS report.  Errors were made others could learn from.  Thanks for the post. 

[chriscalandro]

The controller didn’t make a mistake. They asked if you had the notams and you said yes when you did not. 
 

you then landed on a runway that was being worked on and was surprised when you saw vehicles. 
 

none of it sounds like a near miss. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by chriscalandro

[alextstone]

The controller didn’t make a mistake. They asked if you had the notams and you said yes when you did not. 
 
you then Landed on a runway that was being worked on and was surprised when you saw vehicles. 

I THOUGHT I had the NOTAMS. It seems reasonable that if the controller had known the airport was closed he would given me some assistance...

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[chriscalandro]

3 minutes ago, alextstone said:

I THOUGHT I had the NOTAMS. It seems reasonable that if the controller had known the airport was closed he would given me some assistance...

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk
 

Hey did. He asked if you had the NOTAMs. That isn’t a usual question and should have prompted you to look further. 
 

it’s not the controllers job to tell you the NOTAMs and it sounds like they were trying to do you a favor by double checking you had them because one or many things were different. 
 

im sure if you had said know they would have told you, but you said yes.   Did you listen to the aris before landing?  I bet I know the answer. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by chriscalandro

[ilovecornfields]

From your picture it looks like you took off a little heavy…

I would definitely file a NASA report. This has the effect of “notifying people of an unsafe condition.” Controllers are allowed to clear you for an approach at a closed airport. It’s your responsibility to know it is safe to land there. I don’t think the controller did anything wrong but it would have been nice if he told you the airport was closed. Sounds like your wife being hypoxic really threw a curveball in your plans. If my wife was sick it would have messed with my head as well.

In the end, you’re safe, your wife is safe and your plane is undamaged so things worked out. Some knucklehead even has a story to tell his friends about how he raced an airplane.

When I divert for fuel or weather I try to go to a large airport. You end up paying extra for fuel but if you need additional services they are usually available. 

[alextstone]

Hey did. He asked if you had the NOTAMs. That isn’t a usual question and should have prompted you to look further. 
 
it’s not the controllers job to tell you the NOTAMs and it sounds like they were trying to do you a favor by double checking you had them because one or many things were different. 
 
im sure if you had said know they would have told you, but you said yes.   Did you listen to the aris before landing?  I bet I know the answer. 

Look, you're not helping by simply criticizing. Yes I listened to the ASOS, not ATIS. No mention of airport closure, which would not be listed there anyway. I'm sure you are very proud of your ability to criticize from behind your keyboard and I have no doubt you are the better pilot. So, why don't you just kiss off and leave this thread to those who wish to have a constructive dialog?

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[alextstone]

From your picture it looks like you took off a little heavy…
I would definitely file a NASA report. This has the effect of “notifying people of an unsafe condition.” Controllers are allowed to clear you for an approach at a closed airport. It’s your responsibility to know it is safe to land there. I don’t think the controller did anything wrong but it would have been nice if he told you the airport was closed. Sounds like your wife being hypoxic really threw a curveball in your plans. If my wife was sick it would have messed with my head as well.
In the end, you’re safe, your wife is safe and your plane is undamaged so things worked out. Some knucklehead even has a story to tell his friends about how he raced an airplane.
When I divert for fuel or weather I try to go to a large airport. You end up paying extra for fuel but if you need additional services they are usually available. 

I actually re entered the flight this morning to grab the screenshot. I did not pay attention to the fuel and load entered so disregard that

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[chriscalandro]

10 minutes ago, alextstone said:

Look, you're not helping by simply criticizing. Yes I listened to the ASOS, not ATIS. No mention of airport closure, which would not be listed there anyway. I'm sure you are very proud of your ability to criticize from behind your keyboard and I have no doubt you are the better pilot. So, why don't you just kiss off and leave this thread to those who wish to have a constructive dialog?

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk
 

So let me make sure I got this right - 

constructive criticism is not telling you you screwed up when you screwed up?  The RW was closed. There was a NOTAM. 
 

the controller asked you if you had the notams and you said yes. 
 

you landed on a closed runway and think the controller did you wrong. 
 

you then posted a thread titled “near miss with ground vehicles” 
 

These are facts. Not criticism. 
 

a criticism IS that again, the thread title implies the airport did something wrong, not you, which is not the case. And at no time in this story did you ever say anything that most would consider a “near miss”. A car driving on the taxiway may be annoying, but certainly not near, and certainly not something you would ever have to miss

Edited January 29, 2022 by chriscalandro

[ilovecornfields]

Is this your first interaction with @chriscalandro? That’s kind of what he does. Maybe we should all pitch in to buy him a lavender bath bomb so he can take a nice warm bath,  listen to Enya and align his chakras. 

[chriscalandro]

Just now, ilovecornfields said:

Is this your first interaction with @chriscalandro? That’s kind of what he does. Maybe we should all pitch in to buy him a lavender bath bomb so he can take a nice warm bath,  listen to Enya and align his chakras. 

I prefer juice with my baths. 

[alextstone]

So let me make sure I got this right - 
constructive criticism is not telling you you screwed up when you screwed up?  The RW was closed. There was a NOTAM. 
 
the controller asked you if you had the notams and you said yes. 
 
you landed on a closed runway and think the controller did you wrong. 
 
These are facts. Not criticism. 

If you will focus on my bullet list you will say that I clearly took ownership for my mistakes, which you conveniently chose to ignore. Now let me be clear with you:
You're not the kind of person I align well with. I suspect many others who have encountered you feel the same.

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[alextstone]

Is this your first interaction with [mention=17568]chriscalandro[/mention]? That’s kind of what he does. Maybe we should all pitch in to buy him a lavender bath bomb so he can take a nice warm bath,  listen to Enya and align his chakras. 

Yeah...no.

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[chriscalandro]

6 minutes ago, alextstone said:

If you will focus on my bullet list you will say that I clearly took ownership for my mistakes, which you conveniently. Now let me be clear with you:
You're not the kind of person I align well with. I suspect many others who have encountered you feel the same.

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk
 

In my best Yoda voice-

care not I do. 
 

I'm sorry your highness cannot handle being told they were wrong and continues to want to add blame elsewhere for their mistakes. 
 

I like bacon, but I don’t blame the bacon for the extra couple of pounds over the pandemic. Your post is the equivalent of that but adding - shouldn’t they make bacon less good?  Which completely negates any blame taken. Blaming others is not taking ownership. 
 

go file the report and learn from your mistake. Don’t blame everyone else, and don’t be a crybaby when someone doesn’t coddle your fragile ego. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by chriscalandro

[alextstone]

8 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

In my best Yoda voice-

care not I do. 
 

I'm sorry your highness cannot handle being told they were wrong and continues to want to add blame elsewhere for their mistakes. 
 

I like bacon, but I don’t blame the bacon for the extra couple of pounds over the pandemic. Your post is the equivalent of that but adding - shouldn’t they make bacon less good?  Which completely negates any blame taken. Blaming others is not taking ownership. 
 

go file the report and learn from your mistake. Don’t blame everyone else, and don’t be a crybaby when someone doesn’t coddle your fragile ego. 

You are so right.  There were TWO sentences in my original post that questioned the infallibility of controllers and literally paragraphs where I described the events and my mistakes along the way in addition to concerns over an unauthorized private vehicle storming directly toward me on the runway.   I have deleted one of the sentences and I amended the second bullet point to read:

2.  Controllers cannot be expected to fill in gaps where I make mistakes.

I accept full responsibility for my transgressions.  I will continue to try to learn to be a better pilot as was the spirit in which this post was written.  

[Patrick Horan]

Chris is like this all the time, you just get used to it. But to answer your question, I would file one andnmore than likely, nothing will happen. 

Was there no light up X on the runway? Thats usually designates a runway closure. Good job recognizing Hypoxia and getting down as quick as possible. What caused it though?

[chriscalandro]

Now go file your report because for sure it’s pilot deviation and only needs someone to report it. 

[HIghpockets]

Anyhow...getting back to helpful suggestions:

I would agree filing a NASA report is a good idea. It's a great lesson about the need to check for NOTAMS  especially if your plans change in-flight.

When Delta 84 recently had to divert to JFK because of an unruly passenger, the pilot asked ATC to assist in checking for NOTAMs because they were overweight and would need to land on the longest runway. ATC was happy to comply. ATC can provide information in these situations even when there is no emergency. Good to know for next time.

On this and other aviation forums there are some folks who like to offer criticism and manage to come across as harsh or abrasive. I published a story on another website about my  unintended encounter with a severe weather event. I wrote the story to help other pilots avoid the misjudgment I made. There was one guy who couldn't resist going on a harangue about everything I did "wrong".  I thought about firing back at him but decided if I'm going to confess in public, I need to be prepared to take the hits. 

It's to your credit that posted about your incident. Reading reports like this will encourage other pilots to report their errors to make the NAS safer for all of us.

Illegitimi non carborundum

Edited January 29, 2022 by HIghpockets
typo

[201er]

2 hours ago, alextstone said:

I need some feedback.  I know I made an error but I also feel that the system let me down and the results could have been tragic.  Here's the context:

Upon nearing KCRS, I checked weather on ATIS and NOTAM's on ForeFlight.  That's where I went wrong, because when I Packed for my flight in ForeFlight, the area covered did not include the diversion airport, (location marked in the image below)

Alex

Alex, there may be an issue with foreflight. I was supposed to meet a friend at my home field for a lunch flight. We agreed a meeting time the prior day. The prior day there was a snowstorm but we figured it would be cleared by then.

I drove to my airport and although he was PIC of his plane, I picked up a phone weather briefing just in case. They said AIRPORT CLOSED for snow removal. Sure enough, when I drove in, I could see the snow plow on the runway. I could see on flightaware he was on his way. I urgently tried texting him and got through so that he wouldn't land and would pick me up at a different airport.

After he landed at the other airport, he confessed that he did not get a phone briefing. He said he checked the notams on foreflight and didn't see this one about airport closed!

As far as I'm concerned, ForeFlight can be thrown in the garbage if this is 2 cases of not presenting airport/runway closed notams!

I'm trying to figure out if it's foreflight/internet that made these notams not come through or adsb failed to present this info to ANY platform???

Edited January 29, 2022 by 201er

[201er]

2 hours ago, alextstone said:

Upon nearing KCRS, I checked weather on ATIS and NOTAM's on ForeFlight.  That's where I went wrong, because when I Packed for my flight in ForeFlight, the area covered did not include the diversion airport, (location marked in the image below)

Am I understanding this correctly? So your ForeFlight is NOT connected to ADSB. You did NOT download NOTAMs for the diversion airport. Therefore Foreflight did not present recently published NOTAMs for your diversion? So is the issue here relying on expired data?

[alextstone]

28 minutes ago, 201er said:

Am I understanding this correctly? So your ForeFlight is NOT connected to ADSB. You did NOT download NOTAMs for the diversion airport. Therefore Foreflight did not present recently published NOTAMs for your diversion? So is the issue here relying on expired data?

No, my ForeFlight IS connected to ADSB, however I DID NOT download any data for the diversion airport before the flight.  I am curious to understand how ForeFlight works in these instances... If ForeFlight updates NOTAMS from the ADSB feed, there is cause for concern.  That's one of the things I am trying to understand...not to lay blame elsewhere as some would presume rather to know what is reliable and what is not...

[201er]

5 minutes ago, alextstone said:

No, my ForeFlight IS connected to ADSB.  If ForeFlight updates NOTAMS from the ADSB feed, there is cause for concern.  That's one of the things I am trying to understand...not to lay blame elsewhere as some would presume rather to know what is reliable and what is not...

Yes, this is cause for concern because it could have just as well been a pop-up notam that happened as you were flying. Do you know how often foreflight refreshes notams and did you see a time for the issuance?

But yeah, this sounds exactly like what happened to the guy flying to my airport to pick me up when it turned out closed.

[Browncbr1]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Is this your first interaction with @chriscalandro? That’s kind of what he does. Maybe we should all pitch in to buy him a lavender bath bomb so he can take a nice warm bath,  listen to Enya and align his chakras. 

Why waste money on bath bombs when the ignore feature is completely free!?!  I’ve really enjoyed ignoring him for a couple years now!  I’m guessing he wins for most ignored content on MS.

 

anyhow, to the OPer, you’ve learned, which is the name of the game.  File the nasa and share you’re experience with others like you’re doing.  

Edited January 29, 2022 by Browncbr1

[201er]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Did you read the original post?

"Upon nearing KCRS, I checked weather on ATIS and NOTAM's on ForeFlight.  That's where I went wrong, because when I Packed for my flight in ForeFlight, the area covered did not include the diversion airport, (location marked in the image below)"

He did not file for KCRS and it was not a waypoint on his Foreflight plan.  He did not "pack" for KCRS....no weather, no NOTAMS, zilch for KCRS.  Why do call this a fail of Foreflight?  It did exactly what the pilot planned for it to do.  Do you expect Foreflight to pack for every possible deviation airport on a direct cross country?  I suppose at some point in the future with faster processors and bigger memories on iPads that one day Foreflight will pack everything on every airport in the country for pilots regardless if it is planned or not.

I never liked foreflight and rarely used it so I'm not aware of all of the software inadequacies and limitations but this seems to be a big one!

[ilovecornfields]

I don’t see this as a Foreflight fail or a sign of poor airmanship. I think the OP was task saturated because he was worried about his wife, he had a controller who could have been more explicit about which NOTAM he was concerned about and in the end everyone got home safely and he shared his experience so we could all benefit from it. 

Task saturation is real. When I took off and my baggage door pooped open I told myself “don’t stall, don’t forget the gear” about 20 times because I knew I was distracted and those were the things that could get me in trouble. 

With the benefit of the retrospectoscope we can see how if he’d told the controlled he was unfamiliar with the NOTAMS or called on Unicom for airport advisories (do people still do that?) he might have been informed of the closure. Sounds like he’s learned from this experience (we all have), he took care of his wife’s hypoxia (a potentially serious medical issue) and realized he didn’t have enough fuel to reach his destination so made the wise decision to divert and make a fuel stop instead of trying to stretch it and running out of gas.

A friend of mine told me about some Mooney guy on Pilots of America who keeps bragging about crashing his plane into an orange grove after running out of fuel and seems to have no insight into his contribution to the “accident.”. I think I would have a lot more critical feedback for that pilot than I would for someone who overall made the right choices but was probably a little distracted because he was concerned about the safety of his passenger.

Thank you for sharing so we could all learn from your experience.