LANCECASPER Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said: Agreed...crap happens. The fact that a seat can slide rearward on its own is something that should have been addressed and fixed eons ago. Not exactly a complex issue to resolve. Nothing to fix. You would just have to specifically know that unless you hear it click and then rock it back and forth to make sure, it's probably not locked . . . again . . . transition training. Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 15, 2021 Author Report Posted December 15, 2021 Just now, LANCECASPER said: Nothing to fix. You would just have to specifically know that unless you hear it click and then rock it back and forth to make sure, it's probably not locked . . . again . . . transition training. Still think the Cessna (its happened in the 172 I flew) needs a more secure seat fix. They are anything but "solid". 1 Quote
Guest Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 20 hours ago, philip_g said: You're starting to display invulnerability. Get some transition traijing. Just where does one get said “traijinj” ? It’s just a simple Mooney isn’t it Clarence Quote
philip_g Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, M20Doc said: Just where does one get said “traijinj” ? It’s just a simple Mooney isn’t it Clarence Do we really want to go there? I'll be happy to dig through your post history and point out every typo. Since you're involved in the sale it would seem best you sit this one out. Maybe birds of a feather and all that. Edited December 15, 2021 by philip_g Quote
Guest Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 Just responding to the peanut gallery like so many others here. When this Mooney ad was first posted, it was junk, had suffered a prop strike etc. on and on the comments went. As none of you were in my shop to see it or had any knowledge of it, your comments are made out of ignorance. For Gods sake it’s a simple Mooney with an engine, a prop and retractable gear like thousands of other planes built over the decades. I think far too many of you far overstate how difficult they are to fly. Maybe if that is the limit of your flying experience it does seem a challenge that mere mortals should avoid. It’s not a G1000 FIKI equipped Acclaim. Clarence Quote
Guest Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 This is the Lycoming procedure that will be used for the break in flight which I’ll be going along on. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Reciprocating engine Break-In and Oil Consumption.pdf Clarence Quote
201er Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, M20Doc said: For Gods sake it’s a simple Mooney with an engine, a prop and retractable gear like thousands of other planes built over the decades. I think far too many of you far overstate how difficult they are to fly. It's not difficult to fly... but it's not difficult to screw up and kill yourself in either. Quote
eman1200 Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 This guy is the Canadian Jerry Wagner. 1 Quote
ZuluZulu Posted December 15, 2021 Report Posted December 15, 2021 14 minutes ago, M20Doc said: This is the Lycoming procedure that will be used for the break in flight which I’ll be going along on. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Lycoming Reciprocating engine Break-In and Oil Consumption.pdf Clarence Yet he's spending all his time posting here, asking us how to break the engine in (and other odd questions per @LANCECASPER's summary), when all he has to do is ask you. It's the judgment people are questioning, IMO, not that he can't handle a stick and rudder. 1 Quote
jaylw314 Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 @M20Doc I think many of us actually figured that if you were involved, the plane itself was up to the task, and some of us are a little jealous Quote
LANCECASPER Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 Had no idea Clarence was handling it - time to move on - he's in good hands 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 Checking in a day later… Anything change? Summary… 1) Mooneys aren’t hard to fly… 2) All planes have their own design compromises… 3) Pilots new to a new to them type, often go out of there way to get trained in the specifics of these compromises… 4) If they have experience that is more than a year or two old… The Transition Training is very abbreviated compared to somebody with no experience…. 5) Insurance companies usually get to be the bearer of the bad news… 6) Most often, when people arrive at MS… they don’t recognize the helpful nature of the MS community… 7) It often takes a few days to get acclimated… 8) Sooner or later, a light bulb turns on inside one’s head… and they realize how helpful the community can be… 9) At the same time… they realize how much they have to type… to fill in all the background details… to get a proper answer… 10) Asking a simple question like best power settings…. With a background of… I just bought this plane…. Got widely mis-interpreted with… I don’t know enough about what I am doing…. 11) Very few people want to help somebody with a death wish… 12) The end result… A) The OP was pointed in the direction of the best MSC in Canada… B ) He was pointed in the direction of getting some decent Transition Training to meet his needs… C) Got plenty of discussion on engine break-in D) Flustered a couple of people… E) Ruffled a few feathers 13) There surely are shorter more efficient ways of handling all of this… 14) The last time we saw such an “interesting character” was the coin dealer in NYC… yada, yada, yada….. 15) The FAA has a program that tries to slow things like this down… PAVE and IMSAFE…. And things like that… https://www.chiaerospace.com/post/the-pave-checklist 16) When you get the feeling that you are better than everyone in the community…. And these things don’t apply to you because…. (Fill in any reason you want) Realize most, or even everyone, is trying to help out the OP… no matter how goofy he worded his question(s)… Note for the OP… MS is on the internet… but it is a relatively small community…. They hold all the answers to all of your Mooney questions… Try to fit in… Try to learn something… Try saying thank you… Try to stick around… It turns out… it is worth it. Its great to see you picked up all of the details… Best regards, -a- Quote
ilovecornfields Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 1 hour ago, carusoam said: 14) The last time we saw such an “interesting character” was the coin dealer in NYC… yada, yada, yada….. You just made my night. I’d totally forgotten about that guy. 1 1 Quote
redbaron1982 Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) I'm quite new to aviation but... even me with just over 100 hours of flight time can see that the OP lacks some ADM skills. The very fact that you're asking about the power setting means that you don't have the knowledge or experience to get into a long XC with a freshly overhauled aircraft. It is likely that you will be able to pull it of, but that doesn't mean that was a smart nor a safe decision. In the chain of events that leads to accidents, you're starting already with quite a few links in the chain. Edited December 16, 2021 by redbaron1982 1 Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Posted December 16, 2021 7 hours ago, 201er said: It's not difficult to fly... but it's not difficult to screw up and kill yourself in either. Much like a car and some black ice. Quote
Guest Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 3 hours ago, redbaron1982 said: I'm quite new to aviation but... even me with just over 100 hours of flight time can see that the OP lacks some ADM skills. The very fact that you're asking about the power setting means that you don't have the knowledge or experience to get into a long XC with a freshly overhauled aircraft. It is likely that you will be able to pull it of, but that doesn't mean that was a smart nor a safe decision. In the chain of events that leads to accidents, you're starting already with quite a few links in the chain. So you know him personally and his flying résumé ? (numerous tours as a pilot in the RCAF in Afghanistan) Seeking answers is what brings many people here, so his question seem odd or were presented in an odd way, big deal. Clarence Quote
Hank Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 1 hour ago, M20Doc said: Seeking answers is what brings many people here, so his question seem odd or were presented in an odd way, big deal. In aviation, it is a big deal because no one wants to help a newbie become the next statistic. Apparently you're the only person here who knows the General personally, the rest of us only know what he slowly revealed as he dodged repeated suggestions to get some training, and to get as much engine break-in completed as possible before heading west out of radar coverage (because we've all read about or experienced infant mortality with newly-overhauled engines). Do you really think that flying C130s around Afghanistan is good preparation for flying a Mooney across our continent in mid-winter with zero transition training? Hopefully he won't react like he has the same high power-to-weight ratio that he had there . . . . 2 Quote
M20F-1968 Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 16 hours ago, jaylw314 said: Then you know as well as anyone that if anything happens to you after coming to ask people for advice, it will eat at us for not speaking out more strongly than we have so far. I must support the comment quoted above, respond appropriately, and support the many that have given you good advice. I attended a Mooney proficiency seminar several years ago. The one comment I remembered from the course , more than any other, was posed to the group by one of the very experienced Mooney CFI transition trainers. That question was, "How many of you have a sense of trepidation before any flight in the Mooney?" 2/3 of the attendees raised their hands. I believe the heart of that question addresses the largest scope of safety issues, namely, you do not know what you do not know, until one must also question what may be missed in risk/reward decisions. Flying a military plane or even a 172 is no preparation for flying a Mooney. It is a different airplane with its own characteristics. The problems range from a too fast landing, a bounce, or two, or three leading to a prop-strike, which will leave you recognizing that you should have taken an experienced Mooney pilot with you. Or, something worse may occur leaving your family wishing you had taken an experienced Mooney pilot with you. It is all about the risk/reward decisions one makes. Except for the cost, which you will need and want to make investing in transition training once you realize that the Mooney is not a 172, there is NO DOWNSIDE to taking someone with you. I am not down playing your experience and knowledge, however you do not know what you do not know. There are many CFI's, Mooney ferry pilots and Mooney experienced people who would go with you. Be safe, recognize that your are taking on a task in a new and unknown airplane, with major work that has been performed on it, in a less ideal season (winter in Canada) over inhospitable terrain should something go wrong. Good planning is free. The advice you have received is free. Both are worth much more than you have paid for them. Make smart choice. Too many adverse situations that we see happen are avoidable. John Breda 3 1 Quote
201er Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 For these guys it didn’t take a new engine making problems or distraction from break in to put a plane into the ground in mountains. ATP rating isn’t worth the plastic it’s printed on when this happens. Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Posted December 16, 2021 Again all I was looking for was something along the lines of: 44 = 55% 47= 65% 50 = 75% Thats it. Some simple info to fly the aircraft with in cruise on the way West. I'd already read plenty on Break-in. Hell, at this point I'm comfortable to do the break-in myself, if it came to that. I am more then well aware of the risks of aviation. And in my limited experience all aircraft pretty much fly the same...add power...get speed...fly. If you can't see the simplicity in that, then maybe aviation is not for you? Any pilot should be able to be put behind the stick of any aircraft and take it off and land it without difficulty...they all fly the same. Apart from your seated height above the ground in the cockpit or the speed of liftoff/landing its all pretty similar. I remember my first flight in a military aircraft - the beautiful CF-104 Starfighter...aka The Widowmaker...take-off speed is 200kts...with next to no wing....flying at 500kts at 500' in Germany and going by Walt Disney castle then going straight up to 50,000' while hitting the sound barrier.....got to do some pressure breathing on that one...sweet ride. Again...I wasn't asking for lifes insights to flying the Mooney...just some simple numbers. While I appreciate your "concerns"...they were not asked for or solicited....just some simple numbers...I'm capable of figuring out the rest. 2 Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Posted December 16, 2021 22 minutes ago, 201er said: For these guys it didn’t take a new engine making problems or distraction from break in to put a plane into the ground in mountains. ATP rating isn’t worth the plastic it’s printed on when this happens. Nope, another perfectly serviceable aircraft written off for no good reason. Lets hope we are never one of these. Quote
takair Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 1 hour ago, GeneralT001 said: Again all I was looking for was something along the lines of: 44 = 55% 47= 65% 50 = 75% Thats it. Some simple info to fly the aircraft with in cruise on the way West. I'd already read plenty on Break-in. Hell, at this point I'm comfortable to do the break-in myself, if it came to that. I am more then well aware of the risks of aviation. And in my limited experience all aircraft pretty much fly the same...add power...get speed...fly. If you can't see the simplicity in that, then maybe aviation is not for you? Any pilot should be able to be put behind the stick of any aircraft and take it off and land it without difficulty...they all fly the same. Apart from your seated height above the ground in the cockpit or the speed of liftoff/landing its all pretty similar. I remember my first flight in a military aircraft - the beautiful CF-104 Starfighter...aka The Widowmaker...take-off speed is 200kts...with next to no wing....flying at 500kts at 500' in Germany and going by Walt Disney castle then going straight up to 50,000' while hitting the sound barrier.....got to do some pressure breathing on that one...sweet ride. Again...I wasn't asking for lifes insights to flying the Mooney...just some simple numbers. While I appreciate your "concerns"...they were not asked for or solicited....just some simple numbers...I'm capable of figuring out the rest. I had listed the break in SB because break in milage can vary. You might get it broken in in 5 hours or it might be 40. If you are able to see that oil burn is stable, then you might be able to cruise at lower power settings and higher. If you are still burning excess oil at 5 or 10 hours, you are probably looking at 75% or better cruise numbers. If not sure, then 75% is likely a safe cruise, but turbulence and altitude may not allow it…at which point the reduced power may not do your break in an favours. If you can stay below 8000’ you should be able to mange 75% in some combination. I think it would be difficult to do this LOP, so I would suggest just staying ROP until you are comfortable the engine is broken in. I think this is consistent with the SB. Quote
201er Posted December 16, 2021 Report Posted December 16, 2021 2 hours ago, GeneralT001 said: Again all I was looking for was something along the lines of: 44 = 55% Again...I wasn't asking for lifes insights to flying the Mooney...just some simple numbers. While I appreciate your "concerns"...they were not asked for or solicited....just some simple numbers...I'm capable of figuring out the rest. Why would you trust our advice or numbers when you ignore and argue with the other suggestions/concerns? Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Posted December 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, takair said: I had listed the break in SB because break in milage can vary. You might get it broken in in 5 hours or it might be 40. If you are able to see that oil burn is stable, then you might be able to cruise at lower power settings and higher. If you are still burning excess oil at 5 or 10 hours, you are probably looking at 75% or better cruise numbers. If not sure, then 75% is likely a safe cruise, but turbulence and altitude may not allow it…at which point the reduced power may not do your break in an favours. If you can stay below 8000’ you should be able to mange 75% in some combination. I think it would be difficult to do this LOP, so I would suggest just staying ROP until you are comfortable the engine is broken in. I think this is consistent with the SB. I definitely be following M20Doc's advice on this break-in. Ideally I'll have 10 hrs and an oil change on it before going West and will be planning on lower altitudes if need be....sightseeing Quote
GeneralT001 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Posted December 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, 201er said: Why would you trust our advice or numbers when you ignore and argue with the other suggestions/concerns? Because you own and fly one so you should probably have some idea of power settings? Quote
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