Adjusting door after new seal

[philip_g]

I put a new door seal in and left it to the mechanic to adjust the door. He is saying he can't adjust the door for the seal we have (geebees) I have the fsm instructions for door adjustment as does he. The main problem were having is with the main (lower latch) the seal makes the door too tight to latch. The upper latch is no problem. We actually need to tighten that one.

Are we missing something on how to adjust the main latch? It appears that you can adjust how far the lock extends but not really adjust how tight the door closes? Maybe I'm not understanding the service manual.

[PT20J]

If you can force the door shut, see if leaving it closed for a day or so causes it to take a set like the neoprene ones do. You might try heating it with a heat gun first to soften it. If that doesn’t work, you will probably have to reposition it deeper into the radius of the door edge. In my limited experience, the positioning of the seal is touchy to get it to not leak and also not be too tight.

Skip

[StevenL757]

This…..^

I dealt with the same issue after installing the GEEBEE door seal.  I had to re-position about 3 to 4 inches toward the front of my door frame ear the hinge to make the fit better, but it was still snug.  After the re-positioning, leaving the door closed for a few days at a time on several different occasions allowed the door to close firmly, but nowhere near as hard as the first time after you install the seals.

[philip_g]

Thanks guys. I'll give it a shot.the sun should heat the hangar pretty hot and maybe help compress it. I can get it shut but the door sticks out a bit and the latch won't quite lock. I wonder if I have the seal too far back towards the outer door skin

[PT20J]

I used the Brown Aircraft OEM P seal which I believe Guy copied for his silicone version. I found that placing it so that the round cross section was centered on the door lip rivet line worked well. The other problem areas are the lower corners, especially the front because the door corner radius doesn’t match the frame well leaving a gap. The seal needs to be positioned farther to the outside or it leaks air.

Skip

[philip_g]

5 minutes ago, PT20J said:

I used the Brown Aircraft OEM P seal which I believe Guy copied for his silicone version. I found that placing it so that the round cross section was centered on the door lip rivet line worked well. The other problem areas are the lower corners, especially the front because the door corner radius doesn’t match the frame well leaving a gap. The seal needs to be positioned farther to the outside or it leaks air.

Skip

I thought the seal wasn't supposed to go along the rivets. I put it like so used to the door frame and not the outer skin. Perhaps that's my problem

Edited December 3, 2021 by philip_g

[PT20J]

The Mooney SMM and IPC don't provide any detail. My original was the earlier type that was foam filled and was so flat that it was hard to tell what it looked like originally. But interestingly, it didn't leak water -- just some air at the bottom, I originally thought the seal went in the radius as your picture. I did the baggage compartment first and found out that it leaked water when installed that way. The problem is that the there is too large a gap in spots between the door and frame radii to adequately compress the seal. What I figured out after looking at the old seal on the main door is that the seal is supposed to compress and fill the gap between the flatter edges of the door lip and frame. This works with the Brown seal which is sponge neoprene. If Guy's seal is a different durometer, it might not compress as easily and it might take a different positioning.

Skip

[Mark89114]

I wish I had better advice, I replaced the seal on my mooney with the Knots4U version(I think), it was a PITA, now it whistles more than it did before.  I think the problem is the huge variability in the door and door frame dimensions.  The door fits flush when closed, so I don't think there is any adjustments to be made and there.  I am thinking I will have to add some type of foam seal in the areas where it doesn't fit properly.  Reading posts on here seems like the whole thing is problematic.  The inflatable door seal option, despite being several hundred dollars seems more and more like a better option. 

 

[philip_g]

I think it just comes down to how shitty our door fits and how stiff the seal is.  Even with the new seal I can see daylight around the upper latch. Might have to break down and buy an inflatable seal 

[LANCECASPER]

I wouldn’t adjust the door just the seal. I liked the sealant that they included on the inflatable seal. You could peel it off and adjust it later. It took about three test flights to get right. Of course that was right before I sold the Bravo and now I’m faced with the same thing again 

The good news is that the inflatable seals are on sale right now on their website. This is our resident Mooneyspace inflatable door seal guy:  @tomgo2

https://aerocessories.aero/?utm_campaign=emailmarketing_126691475653&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email

[tomgo2]

@Mark89114, there is a 20% Off Winter Sales Event going on now at www.aerocessories.aero for inflatable door seals.

 

[GeeBee]

It would be helpful if the inflatable seal STC was extended to the long bodies. Some people have mechanics that will not sign off unless it is STC'd.

 

[Mark89114]

1 hour ago, tomgo2 said:

@Mark89114, there is a 20% Off Winter Sales Event going on now at www.aerocessories.aero for inflatable door seals.

 

I have an M20R, what is the legality of installing this product?  I don't see it on the list.

 

[tomgo2]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were referring to an M20R. Guy is correct, the STC does not cover this model. You would need to work with your IA and local FISDO to get a field approval. It is fairly straight forward and shouldn't be too much of an issue.  In recent years, the FSDO has become very conservative in approvals, but I think this will be an easy one for them. Many have done this including Mooney Service Centers in the past.

Tom

[philip_g]

30 minutes ago, tomgo2 said:

Sorry, I didn't realize you were referring to an M20R. Guy is correct, the STC does not cover this model. You would need to work with your IA and local FISDO to get a field approval. It is fairly straight forward and shouldn't be too much of an issue.  In recent years, the FSDO has become very conservative in approvals, but I think this will be an easy one for them. Many have done this including Mooney Service Centers in the past.

Tom

I have a j

[GeeBee]

If it easy to field approve using C-K data, it would be just as easy to use the same data to amend the STC. Most IA's don't like to do field approvals. With all due respect, it is your product to sell to us. Certainty, rather than "I think" would go a long way in the purchase decision.  I would buy one in a second if you made it easy for my IA to write a 337.  By the way I am not Guy aka Gee-Bee.

[tomgo2]

Thank you for your input GeeBee. It is noted.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, tomgo2 said:

Thank you for your input GeeBee. It is noted.

I would offer a M20TN for a test bed for the long bodies : )

[PT20J]

The inflatable seal will certainly fill the gap. But I found that the original seal will also do the job. The problem is, like many things on hand built Mooneys, it takes experience and most of us only do it once. I did it 2.5 times before I figured it out. The placement has to be just right and it probably varies for each airplane slightly. The seal, when compressed, has to fill the gap between the flat areas of the door lip and the frame. To get the placement right it is best to remove the right seat and all the door interior trim and after removing the old door seal get inside with a flashlight and a sharpie and mark the frame contour on the door lip with the sharpie. This is especially critical on the front and rear bottom corners because the radii of the door and the frame don't match exactly. After gluing the seal get a piece of typing paper and close the door with the typing paper between the door and the frame. You can tell by the friction when you try to remove the paper if there are any loose spots. If you find a loose spot and you used the 3M Door Seal adhesive, you can lift up the seal and reapply as the adhesive doesn't get really hard for several hours. If you find a spot that you cannot fix this way, a trick Don Maxwell uses is to cut a piece of the "tail" off the P-seal and glue it between the door lip and the seal. When you are done, shut the door for a day or so to compress the seal while the glue gets a permanent set.

Skip

[StevenL757]

6 hours ago, GeeBee said:

It would be helpful if the inflatable seal STC was extended to the long bodies. Some people have mechanics that will not sign off unless it is STC'd.

 

And additionally, I’ve heard more negative stories from the C340 and Baron crowd about the inflatable portion (and especially the electric ones) than I have positive…just make sure it’s something you really need.  The GEEBEE seals are top notch.

[philip_g]

Can we keep it to mooneys on a mooney forum? 

[LANCECASPER]

After doing the Inflatable door seal on the Bravo that I just sold it was much quieter.

After buying the M20TN a few weeks ago I wasn't ready to dive into doing another door seal until I get some catch-up maintenance done, even though it was frustrating that I was now flying in a louder cabin. One of the small things it needed were the seals on the nose gear doors, which were peeling off. The parts manual shows 3M #4516 self-adhesive seal strips that are 1/2" wide and you can cut to length, which is easy to work with in a roll. It's only 1/16" thick.

I got to thinking that it's thin enough . . . what if on the door frame I put that all the way around so the factory seal mates to that when the door closes? I did it yesterday and just like any time that you put a new seal on the door it's a tight fit when you close it, but after it's closed overnight, you're fine. Same way with this. 

 

 

I took a flight this afternoon and I have never experienced a cabin this quiet in a piston airplane that wasn't pressurized  - even at take-off and full power climb it was so much quieter. I kept looking at my engine instruments to make sure everything was ok. It was the first time I've ever thought that I could fly without a headset and still have a conversation. Before I paired my phone to bluetooth I could hear the music on my phone speaker even though I had my headset on, and I do not have good hearing. (I was the kid in elementary school who had to re-take the hearing test every year.) I'm going to see if I can do the baggage door also.

I may still do the inflatable door seal, but for the time being, this will work.

[hais]

4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

After doing the Inflatable door seal on the Bravo that I just sold it was much quieter.

After buying the M20TN a few weeks ago I wasn't ready to dive into doing another door seal until I get some catch-up maintenance done, even though it was frustrating that I was now flying in a louder cabin. One of the small things it needed were the seals on the nose gear doors, which were peeling off. The parts manual shows 3M #4516 self-adhesive seal strips that are 1/2" wide and you can cut to length, which is easy to work with in a roll. It's only 1/16" thick.

I got to thinking that it's thin enough . . . what if on the door frame I put that all the way around so the factory seal mates to that when the door closes? I did it yesterday and just like any time that you put a new seal on the door it's a tight fit when you close it, but after it's closed overnight, you're fine. Same way with this. 

 

 

I took a flight this afternoon and I have never experienced a cabin this quiet in a piston airplane that wasn't pressurized  - even at take-off and full power climb it was so much quieter. I kept looking at my engine instruments to make sure everything was ok. It was the first time I've ever thought that I could fly without a headset and still have a conversation. Before I paired my phone to bluetooth I could hear the music on my phone speaker even through I had my headset on, and I do not have good hearing. (I was the kid in elementary school who had to re-take the hearing test every year.) I'm going to see if I can do the baggage door also.

I may still do the inflatable door seal, but for the time being, this will work.

Will try this! I have trouble finding a mechanic who is willing to do the paper work to get an approval for the inflatable seal for the O.

[LANCECASPER]

Just now, hais said:

Will try this! I have trouble finding a mechanic who is willing to do the paper work to get an approval for the inflatable seal for the O.

When you open the door the next day it's easy to see where the original seal is making contact by the indentations on the new seal. As long as the additional seal is everywhere  the original seal makes contact I don't see how you can have any leaks.