Electric Motor Mooney Conversion

[McMooney]

2 hours ago, toto said:

I’m almost always full (64gal) when the aircraft is parked. Three reasons, any of which might be nonsense:

* The only time you can have too much fuel in an airplane is when you’re on fire

* Leaving tanks less than full can allow water to condense in the tanks

* Tank seals can dry out when tanks aren’t kept full 

Same.  

Also, i just like the plane being ready to go.

 

[RobertGary1]

42 minutes ago, McMooney said:

Same.  

Also, i just like the plane being ready to go.

 

Go where? I've taken numerous cross country and international trips in my Mooney. Didn't need over 6 hours of fuel.

[toto]

2 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Go where? I've taken numerous cross country and international trips in my Mooney. Didn't need over 6 hours of fuel.

No, but I have relatively frequent cross country trips that are 4 hours. If the tanks are topped with ~6 hours of fuel, that’s plenty of reserve for a four-hour trip. If I had stored the plane with less than full tanks, I’d be much more concerned about headwinds or unexpected routing changes. 

[GeeBee]

10 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Weak or not it works. 

All you have to do is point to the thousands of automobiles driving by the airport to crush the argument.

For instance you could say, "there are more gas powered cars driving by RHV on Capital Expressway in 5 minutes than planes at RHV all day." 

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

All you have to do is point to the thousands of automobiles driving by the airport to crush the argument.

For instance you could say, "there are more gas powered cars driving by RHV on Capital Expressway in 5 minutes than planes at RHV all day." 

Selling those gas cars will be illegal starting  in 8 years in our state. 

[GeeBee]

20 years from now, still a lot of gas cars on the road in CA. Not everyone will be able to spend 40 grand for a cheap EV. The working poor (and by the way the greatest income disparity in the US is CA) will not be buying them anytime soon.

 

[RobertGary1]

23 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

20 years from now, still a lot of gas cars on the road in CA. Not everyone will be able to spend 40 grand for a cheap EV. The working poor (and by the way the greatest income disparity in the US is CA) will not be buying them anytime soon.

 

I think you're relying too much on logic. I've not seen anyone attempt to use a logic argument to close airports. They can just point to the fact that we have a commitment to remove gas cars so where is that commitment for aircraft. I don't see many if any local governments persuaded much by logic.

[Hank]

14 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I think you're relying too much on logic. I've not seen anyone attempt to use a logic argument to close airports. They can just point to the fact that we have a commitment to remove gas cars so where is that commitment for aircraft. I don't see many if any local governments persuaded much by logic.

There's no commitment that I've seen to remove gas cars. That requires massive production of electric cars rather than the boutique selection available now, as well as thousands of quick charging stations and one common plug. Plus consumers need the money to buy them. I'm not in a position to replace my gasoline vehicles soon, either. One is brand new, fresh off the assembly line because nothing is available used.

[RobertGary1]

52 minutes ago, Hank said:

There's no commitment that I've seen to remove gas cars. That requires massive production of electric cars rather than the boutique selection available now, as well as thousands of quick charging stations and one common plug. Plus consumers need the money to buy them. I'm not in a position to replace my gasoline vehicles soon, either. One is brand new, fresh off the assembly line because nothing is available used.

It’s already done. Signed by the governor

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/23/916209659/california-governor-signs-order-banning-sales-of-new-gasoline-cars-by-2035

 

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

It’s already done. Signed by the governor

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/23/916209659/california-governor-signs-order-banning-sales-of-new-gasoline-cars-by-2035

 

Thankfully the nearest Cali state k one is 2500 miles from here! Way too far to drive. It does look, though, that my time to add CA as a state that I've landed in as PIC is limited. OH, well, at least I have Alaska . . .

[Igor_U]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

It’s already done. Signed by the governor

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/23/916209659/california-governor-signs-order-banning-sales-of-new-gasoline-cars-by-2035

 

2035 is not really in 8 years... 

 

[Hank]

3 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

2035 is not really in 8 years... 

 

Common Core math . . . .

[A64Pilot]

A lot of misconceptions of EV vehicles.

First the “working poor” will be buying them, just not new ones, but then they don’t buy new ICE vehicles either, with the exception of Tesla, EV’s depreciate hugely, my belief is that’s largely due to the subsidies. Nissan leaf for example was worth only 11% of its new price at 5 years.

I was going to buy a used Leaf as I could get a good used one for the same price of a golf cart, before the pandemic it was $5,000 for a good Leaf, you could get the cheaper too. Used prices are crazy now though.

Run the math yourself, if you don’t have money an EV is they way to go as they cost 1/4 as much to fuel as an ICE car does if you can charge at home,if you have to use a public charger it’s likely only half.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/07/all-electric-cars-except-teslas-have-a-depreciation-problem/

Second there is a universal plug, except Tesla again, but the adapter to make the other plug fit a Tesla is about the size of your fist and cost about $30.

Finally you don’t want to buy an EV until they can go far? Range is way overstated if you pay more you can get one with over 400 miles of range, but that’s not really needed, except for a very few, traveling sales people if there is such a thing anymore won’t likely want an EV.

You can “Supercharge” a Tesla up to about 80% in 20 minutes,  that last 20% though just like any battery chemistry takes awhile.

But really how many drive long trips often? Isn’t that why we fly? Just rent when you get there, it’s easy they will drop it off at the FBO.

Or for most of us just rent, the rentals are unlimited mileage, why rack all those miles on your car?

EV’s aren’t for everyone, if for instance you can’t charge at home, then you don’t want one.

Edited November 18, 2021 by A64Pilot

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

A lot of misconceptions of EV vehicles.

First the “working poor” will be buying them, just not new ones, but then they don’t buy new ICE vehicles either, with the exception of Tesla, EV’s depreciate hugely, my belief is that’s largely due to the subsidies. Nissan leaf for example was worth only 11% of its new price at 5 years.

I was going to buy a used Leaf as I could get a good used one for the same price of a golf cart, before the pandemic it was $5,000 for a good Leaf, you could get the cheaper too. Used prices are crazy now though.

Run the math yourself, if you don’t have money an EV is they way to go as they cost 1/4 as much to fuel as an ICE car does if you can charge at home,if you have to use a public charger it’s likely only half.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/07/all-electric-cars-except-teslas-have-a-depreciation-problem/

Second there is a universal plug, except Tesla again, but the adapter to make the other plug fit a Tesla is about the size of your fist and cost about $30.

Finally you don’t want to buy an EV until they can go far? Range is way overstated if you pay more you can get one with over 400 miles of range, but that’s not really needed, except for a very few, traveling sales people if there is such a thing anymore won’t likely want an EV.

You can “Supercharge” a Tesla up to about 80% in 20 minutes,  that last 20% though just like any battery chemistry takes awhile.

But really how many drive long trips often? Isn’t that why we fly? Just rent when you get there, it’s easy they will drop it off at the FBO.

Or for most of us just rent, the rentals are unlimited mileage, why rack all those miles on your car?

EV’s aren’t for everyone, if for instance you can’t charge at home, then you don’t want one.

Now that i think of it, I don't think i'll notice a diff once ev range averages somewhere between 300 and 400 miles; gladly getting out of the car and taking a break.  what's that like 5 or 6 hours of driving ?

Edited November 18, 2021 by McMooney

[RobertGary1]

14 minutes ago, McMooney said:

Now that i think of it, I don't think i'll notice a diff once ev range averages somewhere between 300 and 400 miles; gladly getting out of the car and taking a break.  what's that like 5 or 6 hours of driving ?

Not that’s it’s relevant but if we had a plan to replace new aircraft with electric by 2035 that would be good for those trying to close airports in California. 
2035 is signed 2030 is the push 

 

https://electrek.co/2021/09/01/ca-dems-endorse-plan-to-push-california-gas-car-ban-to-2030/

[FloridaMan]

Have it powered by a gas turbine generator and forget the batteries. Or better yet, two gas turbine generators and two motors to drive the prop with a planetary gearset to combine the power from both motors. If one fails or seizes (engine or motor), overpower the other or, at worst, be left with 50% power. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by FloridaMan

[Hank]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

EV’s aren’t for everyone, if for instance you can’t charge at home, then you don’t want one.

And if you make 300 mile trips every 2-3 months, with no place at your destination to charge, EVs aren't for you either. That's me.

And I guess Kalifornia just doesn't need traveling salespeople anymore, huh? They all shop on amazon.

[RobertGary1]

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

And if you make 300 mile trips every 2-3 months, with no place at your destination to charge, EVs aren't for you either. That's me.

And I guess Kalifornia just doesn't need traveling salespeople anymore, huh? They all shop on amazon.

Ford now claims they have tested a charging system that can recharge in the time it takes to pump a tank of gas.  That would be a game changer. 
 

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2021/Q4/electric-vehicles-could-fully-recharge-in-under-5-minutes-with-new-charging-station-cable-design.html

[Hank]

1 minute ago, RobertGary1 said:

Ford now claims they have tested a charging system that can recharge in the time it takes to pump a tank of gas.  That would be a game changer.

That will sell a lot of electric cars. How do you charge up away from home in rural America? You know, the 90% of the acreage in this country that isn't urban?

[RobertGary1]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

That will sell a lot of electric cars. How do you charge up away from home in rural America? You know, the 90% of the acreage in this country that isn't urban?

I think the idea would be you'd go to the gas station and choose from gas, diesel, electric at the pump. 5 min either way.

 

-Robert

[markgrue]

Just as an outsider looking at California,  and considering the rolling blackouts in the last several years,   what happens when several million cars are a few hundred airplanes plug in to recharge their batteries?   I wonder if the governor will be able to charge up his multi ton electric limousine?  Of course there is the 27.3 twh of solar power but when the sun goes down...

 

Mark 

[GeeBee]

Believing the regulation of ICE automobiles will lead to regulation of aircraft presupposes that the technology is both available, and yields similar results as ICE aircraft. Even CARB (California Air Resources Board) recognizes that replacements have to be viable technology.

 

[Planegary]

On the range of an ev you have to consider peripherals on cars. If you live in a cold climate the cold will really reduce the battery capability and if you want to warm the car it hurts it even further. In a hot climate you will probably want A/c and again another drain on your battery. People always talk about battery range but they never talk about the peripherals that really lower the battery range and just use ideal condition numbers. Imagine sitting in a 2 hr traffic jam on a hot day and wanting A/c but afraid you will run out of electrons to get home

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

Believing the regulation of ICE automobiles will lead to regulation of aircraft presupposes that the technology is both available, and yields similar results as ICE aircraft. Even CARB (California Air Resources Board) recognizes that replacements have to be viable technology.

 

I don’t think anyone supposes similar regulation will hit aircraft. The point is that emissions are being used as justification to close airports. Rich guy toys dumping emissions on poor children is how it’s framed. 

[clh]

8 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Ford now claims they have tested a charging system that can recharge in the time it takes to pump a tank of gas.  That would be a game changer. 
 

That would be a game changer.  The next question is: Can the electrical grid handle the load?