Ads-b upgrade?

[Mooneym20F 19v]

Hi group!

Just purchased M20F, and loving every minute of it. Unfortunately the plane doesn’t have ADS-B and time to upgrade. I’m hoping the experts in the group and point me in the right direction. 
 

option 1. - installing uAvionix's tail beacon.
option 2. - upgrade transponder.

so I want to do whatever makes the most sense. Is there on option that has a better value?
 

here what I have in the plane now.  
 

Your opinion/expertise is much appreciated.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Mooneym20F 19v
Photos

[philip_g]

What do you want to accomplish and with what budget? Do you just want adsb out legally or do you want to upgrade and also have adsb in?

I don't personally love the tail beacon but they work. Would there be room for a gtn750 where the existing GPS and transponder are? Then a remote mount transponder and gdl88 or something similar? I love spending other people's money. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by philip_g

[Mooneym20F 19v]

17 minutes ago, philip_g said:

What do you want to accomplish and with what budget? Do you just want adsb out legally or do you want to upgrade and also have adsb in?

I don't personally love the tail beacon but they work. Would there be room for a gtn750 where the existing GPS and transponder are? Then a remote mount transponder and gdl88 or something similar? I love spending other people's money. 

I am working on my IFR rating. My goal is to be able to fly above 10,000 feet and not be restricted in certain airspace. The GPS that’s in there now works however it is old technology. I am willing to upgrade that as well however theres always a budget.

I was considering leaving the GPS that is in there now and adding a GTX 345. From what I was reading that would be a direct replacement for the transponder that is in there and would give me the ADSB that I need. 
 

I’ll also add that the auto pilot that’s in there now I really enjoy its functionality and works well.

I am very naïve when it comes to avionics

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Mooneym20F 19v

[jaylw314]

31 minutes ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

I am working on my IFR rating. My goal is to be able to fly above 10,000 feet and not be restricted in certain airspace. The GPS that’s in there now works however it is old technology. I am willing to upgrade that as well however theres always a budget.

I was considering leaving the GPS that is in there now and adding a GTX 345. From what I was reading that would be a direct replacement for the transponder that is in there and would give me the ADSB that I need. 
 

I’ll also add that the auto pilot that’s in there now I really enjoy its functionality and works well.

I am very naïve when it comes to avionics

 

Watch out, various ADS-B solution that use an existing GPS may not be approved with all GPS sources (although IIRC you no longer have to factor in the aircraft type in the equation).  I installed the BK KT-74 transponder, and it is apparently not approved with the Avidyne IFD GPS/com radios, AFAIK 

[philip_g]

I haven't looked at adsb options in a couple years but any xponder you buy will need it's own GPS source as that gpsbisnt waas. 

I would choose an upgrade path for the future and buy equipment that follows that path off the bat but that's just me. Might be worthwhile to just do the tail beacon until you have a plan in mind. It's expensive to do things twice 

Edited October 31, 2021 by philip_g

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

Hi group!

Just purchased M20F, and loving every minute of it. Unfortunately the plane doesn’t have ADS-B and time to upgrade. I’m hoping the experts in the group and point me in the right direction. 
 

option 1. - installing uAvionix's tail beacon.
option 2. - upgrade transponder.

so I want to do whatever makes the most sense. Is there on option that has a better value?
 

here what I have in the plane now.  
 

Your opinion/expertise is much appreciated.

What's your end game? 

If your plan is just to get by temporarily with ADB-S out I'd buy a used SkyBeacon or Tailbeacon to buy you some time until you figure out what you want to do. You can always sell it to someone in the same boat as you when you're done.

If your plan is to go all Garmin, I would do a Garmin GTX345. It does both in and out.

Eventually you'll want to do WAAS approaches so you'll need a WAAS GPS. The only thing more expensive than having a really nice panel is doing it two or three times before you get the panel you're looking for.

[Mooneym20F 19v]

13 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

What's your end game? 

If your plan is just to get by temporarily with ADB-S out I'd buy a used SkyBeacon or Tailbeacon to buy you some time until you figure out what you want to do. You can always sell it to someone in the same boat as you when you're done.

If your plan is to go all Garmin, I would do a Garmin GTX345. It does both in and out.

Eventually you'll want to do WAAS approaches so you'll need a WAAS GPS. The only thing more expensive than having a really nice panel is doing it two or three times before you get the panel you're looking for.

I was considering a GTX 345. Are you saying that I would need to buy a new Garman GPS as well? Or would I be able to get by with the existing 155XL for a while, upgrade gps later,  and not be wasting money? 
If this route is taking one step forward and two steps back, then it doesn’t make sense.

[philip_g]

35 minutes ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

I was considering a GTX 345. Are you saying that I would need to buy a new Garman GPS as well? Or would I be able to get by with the existing 155XL for a while, upgrade gps later,  and not be wasting money? 
If this route is taking one step forward and two steps back, then it doesn’t make sense.

You can get the 345 with an integrated GPS, that is what you need. Then your existing GPS can still be used to varying degrees of usefulness....

Edited October 31, 2021 by philip_g

[PeteMc]

You need a WAAS GPS source for ADS-B Out compliance.  So if your current GPS is WAAS, then it's a quick conversation with your avionics guy or Garmin just to confirm that your current GPS (WAAS) has the outputs to feed the GNX345.  (I have one and so far no issues at all.)

If you do not have a WAAS GPS or for whatever reason it will not feed the GTX, then you have a couple of options.  One is that there is a version of the GTX345 with a built in GPS for an additional $500.  Down the road there may be an advantage of having an additional GPS onboard, but not sure my choice would be to have it in the GTX vs something like the GNC355 which I have as my second Comm and backup GPS. 

The other option is to install the uAvionix tail beacon while you complete your instrument training.  Once you're done with your training, then you can revisit exactly what you're going to do with the entire panel.  At that point a GTN750 or 650 along with a GTX345 might make a lot of sense. 

And if I'm spending your money....  I'd say consider the GTN650 and GTX345 now before you start your IFR training.  Then you'll get all the kinks of learning the GTN out during you're training.

[LANCECASPER]

52 minutes ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

I was considering a GTX 345. Are you saying that I would need to buy a new Garman GPS as well? Or would I be able to get by with the existing 155XL for a while, upgrade gps later,  and not be wasting money? 
If this route is taking one step forward and two steps back, then it doesn’t make sense.

Another option would be the Garmin GNX375 which is a WAAS GPS with transponder built in. That should fit in the same footprint as your older Garmin GPS. 

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/577174

[jaylw314]

55 minutes ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

I was considering a GTX 345. Are you saying that I would need to buy a new Garman GPS as well? Or would I be able to get by with the existing 155XL for a while, upgrade gps later,  and not be wasting money? 
If this route is taking one step forward and two steps back, then it doesn’t make sense.

Ah, it's a 155XL?  That's non-WAAS, so you'll need a WAAS GPS sources regardless for ADS-B

The cheapest standalone WAAS out there is probably a used GNS 430W, which is still likely to be more expensive than the built-in GPS options on a ADS-B transponder

[Skates97]

GNC355 is stand alone WAAS and but is only GPS/COM, no ground based Nav.

Something like a GTX335 for out along with a GA35 for the GPS source works. That only gives you ADS-B out, no in, but you can get in with a Stratux for a lot less money than an in/out combination. 

It really depends on if this is a "forever plane" or just a stepping stone to something else. 

[bmcconnaha]

4 hours ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

Hi group!

Just purchased M20F, and loving every minute of it. Unfortunately the plane doesn’t have ADS-B and time to upgrade. I’m hoping the experts in the group and point me in the right direction. 
 

option 1. - installing uAvionix's tail beacon.
option 2. - upgrade transponder.

so I want to do whatever makes the most sense. Is there on option that has a better value?
 

here what I have in the plane now.  
 

Your opinion/expertise is much appreciated.

 

I sell tons of tailbeacons, but I also take a few back in on trade because people end up wanting a new transponder anyways.  

If you'd like im happy to talk cost/benefit and long term goals with you.  Definitely want to buy the right option, so you don't have to do it twice.  Need to figure out if traffic to a panel mounted unit is important down the road, or you just want to to an ipad, things like that.  Let me know if I can help. 

Bryan @ avionics source 

[McMooney]

since you already have nav,   i'd just buy a gnx375 to replace the current gps and transponder. adsb and rnav approaches all in one 8).

 

working on your ifr you def want waas, makes things soo much easier. 

 

[Mooneym20F 19v]

This is such amazing information folks. I really appreciate you taking your time to share your knowledge. This is exactly the input I was hoping for.

[Ragsf15e]

20 minutes ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

This is such amazing information folks. I really appreciate you taking your time to share your knowledge. This is exactly the input I was hoping for.

Gnx375 makes a lot of sense for what you’re asking to do.  Much better for your ifr flying, great adsb in/out.  Bit pricey but I’d definitely do that.

[philip_g]

 

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, Mooneym20F 19v said:

This is such amazing information folks. I really appreciate you taking your time to share your knowledge. This is exactly the input I was hoping for.

Welcome aboard 19v… 

There is a logic tree for what you are trying to accomplish…

That starts out with what you have, and what you are trying to accomplish…

If you have a forever plane or it is only with you for a year or two…

Installing avionics gets expensive…. So choose wisely…. Do it once…

For new avionics… BMc above does a great job bringing some new avionics to the MS community…

For pre-flown avionics…. @Alan Fox makes a great resource…

The tail beacon is a low cost highly functional device… while staying low cost…. It is an add-on kind of device to supplement what you have…

If you need a new transponder and WAAS gps navigator…. There are better solutions for that…

So… don’t rush your decision….

PP thoughts only, not an avionics guru…

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

I have an M20F and installed the Tailbeacon just before the deadline and have been VERY happy with it (built in GPS, so no compatibility issues).  Works just fine with my old KT76. Best part is that, all in, under $2300.  Then I bought a $200 Scout for ADS-B In which is wireless to my iPad with Foreflight.  Works great for traffic and weather.  I have no regrets.

[LANCECASPER]

26 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I have an M20F and installed the Tailbeacon just before the deadline and have been VERY happy with it (built in GPS, so no compatibility issues).  Works just fine with my old KT76. Best part is that, all in, under $2300.  Then I bought a $200 Scout for ADS-B In which is wireless to my iPad with Foreflight.  Works great for traffic and weather.  I have no regrets.

The only issue with that setup is that one day the old KT76 will die. Any of the old cavity tube transponders are on borrowed time and the used one you buy to replace it is just as old. If you are a good shopper, for not much more money, a GTX335 can be purchased for around $2500 and you have adsb-out in a solid state transponder for the next 20 yrs. 

[Utah20Gflyer]

If you want to spend the least money possible to become compliant a Uavionix wing or tail beacon will hands down be the best option at maybe 3k, If you want to spend 13k or more the Garmin 375 gps/transponder is probably the next least expensive option with WAAS gps and ads in/out.  Keep in mind though you will likely need a new cdi or HSI to display the nav data from it,  that will run you minimum another 2.5k for a 106b although in my case I went with a GI 275 HSI because it’s what I wanted.   My Garmin 355 and GI 275 ran just over 16k installed