Are Mooney M20E seats interchangeable

[Celso Backes]

I have a Mooney M20e that required two from seat to be changed due to corrosion.  My seat part numbers are 140040-505 can I put a 140040-503 which is a M20e same Model but different serial number efectivity then mine.

[KSMooniac]

Any Mooney seat will fit in there, even from an Acclaim. Work it out with your IA, but I'd call it a minor mod to put a newer seat from a Mooney into an older model. Update W&B as well.

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[ShuRugal]

Would it even be a minor mod? Taking the seat off the track and putting it back is a pilot level task. As long as the seat put in is compatible with the one removed, it's not a modification at all.

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[KSMooniac]

If you install a different part number than what is specified in the parts catalog, I'd say it is a minor mod. Using a newer Mooney seat (certified by definition) puts it in the minor category. If you modified a Bonanza seat to work, I'd call that a major mod. Just my opinion...

(I commented on your FB post that I have some seat frames from an 81 J that I would like to sell...)

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[Hank]

33 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

If you install a different part number than what is specified in the parts catalog, I'd say it is a minor mod. Using a newer Mooney seat (certified by definition) puts it in the minor category. If you modified a Bonanza seat to work, I'd call that a major mod. Just my opinion...

The FAA defines Major Modifications, and it has nothing to do with seats . . . .

[KSMooniac]

The FAA defines Major Modifications, and it has nothing to do with seats . . . .

Not explicitly, but there is a potential huge impact to flight controls if as an example you put in some alternate non-Mooney seat (somehow) and it slipped aft on takeoff. That's killed folks over the years...

Anyway, I didn't want to kick off a major/minor debate. That's up to an owner and the signing IA as far as I'm concerned. I've put newer Mooney seats in my J with no worries at all.

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[ShuRugal]

Not explicitly, but there is a potential huge impact to flight controls if as an example you put in some alternate non-Mooney seat (somehow) and it slipped aft on takeoff. That's killed folks over the years...

Lol, by that logic, putting an uncertificated butt in the right seat is a major modification.

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[carusoam]

Chairs sliding aft in a short body…. Probably still dangerous…. When you find out during rotation….

We are still awaiting the results of the last Long Body accident…. It is highly likely to be something as simple as a chair problem…

So… while getting the right Mooney chairs…. Make sure they are working as designed… track holes are empty from dirt… and the wheels on the seats are still functional…

PP thoughts only, not a chair engineer…

Best regards,

-a-

[DXB]

19 hours ago, carusoam said:

Chairs sliding aft in a short body…. Probably still dangerous…. When you find out during rotation….

We are still awaiting the results of the last Long Body accident…. It is highly likely to be something as simple as a chair problem…

So… while getting the right Mooney chairs…. Make sure they are working as designed… track holes are empty from dirt… and the wheels on the seats are still functional…

PP thoughts only, not a chair engineer…

Best regards,

-a-

Also, if your avionics shop or someone else removes and reinstalls a seat, add it to your post maintenance checklist to make sure the seat is securely on BOTH rails, not just one.  Failure to do so can lead to an untimely surprise.  Ask me how I know .

[ShuRugal]

Also, if your avionics shop or someone else removes and reinstalls a seat, add it to your post maintenance checklist to make sure the seat is securely on BOTH rails, not just one.  Failure to do so can lead to an untimely surprise.  Ask me how I know .

I added "verify seat adjusted and secure" to my pre-takeoff checklist. I do this by grabbing the center frame tube up the windscreen attempting to pull my seat forward, and to shove it back.

My IA fabbed up some new rollers for my seats a year ago, and they roll so smoothly that it's immediately obvious if the seat is not correctly on the rails.

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[DXB]

19 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

I added "verify seat adjusted and secure" to my pre-takeoff checklist. I do this by grabbing the center frame tube up the windscreen attempting to pull my seat forward, and to shove it back.

My IA fabbed up some new rollers for my seats a year ago, and they roll so smoothly that it's immediately obvious if the seat is not correctly on the rails.

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My checklist has that but my rollers are not nearly as slick - I couldn't detect the problem until I leaned right to close the cabin door when I was #1 for takeoff and the seat leaned in unison with me - it was not on the left rail.  I had to tell tower at that point that I need to go back to the ramp.  I might have never noticed had it been the right rail that wasn't engaged.

[cliffy]

Luckily I was taught from my first flight in a C150 in 1962 to check the seat locking anytime the seat was moved on the rail, I have never (and I do mean never) forgotten that admonition. Its a built in habit.  I was trained by a DC-3 driver. I know of it happening on a 747 Capt at rotation also only it moves back 4 feet.

Installing new rollers on the seats does wonders for movability. Available in the supply chain for Mooney parts. With good rollers if it is not on the tracks correctly you WILL notice it doesn't slide well keying you to a problem. 

Question- why do Cessnas have an AD on the seat tracks and we don't? We both have sliding pins and holes in the tracks? Same design just not enough deaths in Mooneys maybe?  :-)

Edited September 2, 2021 by cliffy
add

[mike_elliott]

18 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Luckily I was taught from my first flight in a C150 in 1962 to check the seat locking anytime the seat was moved on the rail, I have never (and I do mean never) forgotten that admonition. Its a built in habit.  I was trained by a DC-3 driver. I know of it happening on a 747 Capt at rotation also only it moves back 4 feet.

Installing new rollers on the seats does wonders for movability. Available in the supply chain for Mooney parts. With good rollers if it is not on the tracks correctly you WILL notice it doesn't slide well keying you to a problem. 

Question- why do Cessnas have an AD on the seat tracks and we don't? We both have sliding pins and holes in the tracks? Same design just not enough deaths in Mooneys maybe?  :-)

Because CFI Pauline Genung ex first wife of my ex father in law lost her life while training a student in a c150 at Eagle Creek airpark way back around 1975 or so when her seat slipped back on take off. She was all of 4'11" and didnt let go of the yoke when it slipped back, stalling and killing her. (hows that for falling within the 7 degrees of separation?)

I dont think this happened on a Mooney yet, but may have been a "contributing cause" on the Eagle takeoff accident a few years ago

[cliffy]

At rotation the Capts seat on the 747 started back electrically He looked at his co-pilot and said- "You've got the airplane" as he took his ride aft. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, cliffy said:

At rotation the Capts seat on the 747 started back electrically He looked at his co-pilot and said- "You've got the airplane" as he took his ride aft. 

That won't work for my Mooney . . . .

[ShuRugal]

That won't work for my Mooney . . . .

That's why setting your takeoff trim correctly is important, so you can release the yoke, grab the windshield tube, and yank yourself forward again.



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[Pete M]

The seat in my e let go on rotation once. Was terrifying:) 

[1967 427]

Being 6’4” it would almost be more comfortable all the way back, but the seat isn’t locked in at that location, so I fly with the seat in the locking point.