Let’s hear those panel thoughts on my M20F

[Ragsf15e]

Nothing mentioned so far is likely to keep you below $15k.  Well maybe if you just do 2xG5s, but not with a new panel.  Or maybe just doing the engine monitor.

 I had almost exactly the same panel and a 430w and stec30a.  I went with g5s because the -275s hadn’t come out.  I’d definitely recommend the -275s just because they fit in the panel.  You can then remove the vacuum system.  Stop there until you’re ready to spend more and do the cgr30p engine monitor.  You can keep the same panel still and just pull some of the instruments that are no longer required due to the -275s.  If you go with G5s, all the backup instruments must stay.  

If you’re going to cut and install a whole new panel, bust to go big and put in everything you want now or will want in the future to avoid going back in soon.

Not really a way to do a whole new panel with new avionics for $15k unfortunately, but if you pick - GPS, Engine Monitor, or PFD/MFD and do it in chunks you can probably get a good upgrade and stick with the budget although going back in multiple times has its own costs.

[Skates97]

10 hours ago, Bryan G said:

You’re 100% right…I don’t log a lot of IMC hours in my Mooney, and I don’t need it. But I “need” it 

@Skates97 that’s exactly what I need…you and KS have me sold on the 450! Also sold on the electric step. I dig your left side panel layout, that might be the direction I’ll head. Engine monitor is in a great spot IMO too. What are you expecting the flush mount G5s and EDM900 to run ya? 

I’m leaning towards the EDM830. But from a EDM700…I see simple swaps to the 730, but not to the 830. I’ll have to research more, I know the 900 would be great but I don’t think I’ll need the panel space, I’ll likely just leave the original engine instruments as they are.

Current mindset is a G5 stack (or 275), PMA450B, EDM830/900 and a panel cut…electric step and vacuum removal. Probably more than a year out, all of this is about 13.5 AMUs without install but I love where it’s heading! Thanks for all the input so far, please keep it coming!

I'm going to do it myself so just a bunch of time and probably a cut here and there on my hands. 

I have the aluminum sheet for the panel and the brackets to flush mount them already. I have a friend with a CNC machine that will cut the panel for me when I'm ready. I did the avionics install with oversight from my AP/IA so compared to that I think the panel will be easier.

As Tom said the 900 is not so much about clearing up panel space, although it does that nicely, it removes future maintenance issues with the old gages. If you are going to overhaul I would spend the extra for a certified monitor that will allow you to pull out the old gages.

[rbridges]

8 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Given your budget, I go with dual G5s, and since you’re not in a hurry, I would keep an eye out for used G5s. Ditto for used Stec parts (servos, controller) to maintain your current AP, and lose the vacuum pump.
Then get a certified monitor and lose the old engine gauges, a 900 would fit nicely where your 6 pack of engine gauges is. It’s more about removing future maintenance issues than panel space. Remove the compass from the vertical bar and install a panel mount where your old JPI 700 EM is now to open up the front view.

I was thinking the dual G5s also.  Gets rid of your vacuum system (for gauges anyway).  I like my Aspen MAX panels, but I don't know if you could squeeze in two panels with install in your budget.

[Mkruger2021]

I think we are heading the Dynon HDX route, The basic system is $11,200 plus tax.....I just think one gets a lot for that.....It will need to be installed. Dynon allows A&P's to do in themselves which I am....The system can be expanded easily and very affordable. Im hoping the autopilot gets approved!.....

[Bryan G]

Thanks for all the input, because I am in no rush I’ll wait until the time is right to fund this all the way through. I think I’ve been convinced after reading more into the engine monitors that the JPI900 will be my main focus, followed by the rest.

I’ll go with the EDM900, pilot side portrait mounted in the CDI spot. Remove the vacuum and go with dual G5s, or -275s if the price goes down and my AMU stash goes up. Move the SL30 back up CDI over a spot and clean up the panel a bit. One day I’ll update everyone with the progress…or if I decide to go a different path. I’ll likely update the GMA340 to the PMA450B as well, big fan of the Bluetooth capability and not needing another cord for my music!

[KSMooniac]

You won't regret the 900. I love mine but wish I did the cies fuel senders. They weren't quite ready at the time, but I'll eventually correct that.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[Csteffen]

We actually just went through this whole debacle ourselves with the original six pack. What we found was that any combination of G5’s or aspen glass with an external engine monitor brought us seriously close to just going with the G3X and EIS. That coupled with an already installed GTN-650 and our decision was much easier. 
 

We went with the G3X EIS and G5 as a backup then decided to just put an iPad mount on the copilot side. It’s clean, extremely user friendly, and being able to take the iPad home to mission plan is a huge plus. Not to mention being able to update the iPad to the new model for a tiny fraction of what it would cost to buy a new screen. 
 

Here’s what we came up with. Couldn’t be happier. 

[hmasing]

Here's where I ended up when I redid my '68 M20F two years ago from the original shotgun panel with one G5 and the GNS-530W in place. 

Before:

 

After:

Edited August 8, 2021 by hmasing

[Mooney Dog]

11 minutes ago, hmasing said:

I have a mighty need 

[carusoam]

MD gets today’s MS Eagle Eye Award..!

This award is often awarded to the most savvy of Mooney aviators and mechanic… who can point out the tiniest of details in a posted pic…

Today’s lesson in distraction… My eyes were drawn towards all the flashy colors…. I kinda skipped the placards….  

Best regards,

-a-

[AerostarDriver]

15K is a pretty tight budget to do a lot but here is maybe a interesting option.

Dual GI-275s, CGR-30P and a GTX-345

If you sell the JPI, your old transponder, your vacuum system and a GI-106 you should be in the ballpark of your budget but you get ADS-B in which will be displayed on your GI-275, MX200, and iPad. You will also will get a modern engine monitor. My rough estimating puts you in at about 17K installed with about 2700 dollars in sold equipment.

[Bryan G]

On 8/9/2021 at 8:46 AM, AerostarDriver said:

15K is a pretty tight budget to do a lot but here is maybe a interesting option.

Dual GI-275s, CGR-30P and a GTX-345

If you sell the JPI, your old transponder, your vacuum system and a GI-106 you should be in the ballpark of your budget but you get ADS-B in which will be displayed on your GI-275, MX200, and iPad. You will also will get a modern engine monitor. My rough estimating puts you in at about 17K installed with about 2700 dollars in sold equipment.

This would be awesome, I need to get in touch with a good Cali avionics shop that is familiar with the -275 and can do a good exchange for my older avionics. Lots of great options right now and I might be able to piece some of it together overtime.

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, Bryan G said:

This would be awesome, I need to get in touch with a good Cali avionics shop that is familiar with the -275 and can do a good exchange for my older avionics. Lots of great options right now and I might be able to piece some of it together overtime.

See if @Baker Avionics matches your needs….  Greg Baker has been really helpful answering questions around here….

Just north of california…

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

10 hours ago, Bryan G said:

This would be awesome, I need to get in touch with a good Cali avionics shop that is familiar with the -275 and can do a good exchange for my older avionics. Lots of great options right now and I might be able to piece some of it together overtime.

Bryan - As someone who has gone through the process you are going through, I think the important first step is listing out what you really need, what you really want and then seeing how this works from a budget perspective. From my experience, if you can't afford what you need and what you want now, I would hold off on doing partial upgrades. Every time an avionics shop cuts into your panel, it is almost like starting over. My upgrades started in late 2012 and the last upgrade was done in 2017. An example of "do overs" was the addition of a GNC 255B. I already had a GTN 650 installed with a new PS Engineering audio panel. Adding in the 255 required rewiring the audio panel and the Aspens to accept the new radio outputs. Had I done this over, I would have pulled that second dated Nav/Com and had it installed with the 650.

It is also important to find a quality avionics shop. I was fortunate that the last shop I used was honest and showed me all of the short cuts the previous 2 shops had done. This included notching the radio stack to make things fit and leaving old wiring. The last shop corrected all of the defects, removed excess wiring and even made up a new panel at no charge because "we couldn't let your plane out of the shop with a chopped up panel".

When you get to decision time, come back and let us know how you are doing.

 

 

 

[Bryan G]

Well, about a year has gone by and I’ve decided on what panel upgrades I am making. Fortunately I was at Oshkosh and took advantage of some sweet deals, now I just have to play the waiting game. Ordered the Garmin products a month ago, expected arrival is the first week in November…fingers crossed. Everything else is anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks out.

GI-275 stack, CGR-30 P/C combo with the USB6A, and the PMA450B. Removing both CDIs for trade in or to sell online.

 

I wasn’t planning on a new panel cut, but after talking to some Airventure vendors, Superior Aircraft was pretty convincing. My panel layout isn’t going to change, but I could have a very clean panel. How many hours do you think the install of a newly cut panel would be? I wouldn’t mind doing it with the help of my A&P, I’d imagine the co-pilot side might be a little difficult with the radio/transponder racks.

[Bryan G]

Edited August 4, 2022 by Bryan G

[gmonnig]

On 8/2/2021 at 10:24 PM, Utah20Gflyer said:

I think the 2 garmin 275s would give you the maximum additional utility.   Personally I think they are the better deal than G5’s for the Mooney application because they allow the removal of 4 of the six pack instruments as well as CDIs if you have them.  In a tight Mooney panel that makes room for lots of other things in the future.   Better functionality and options as well.  Worth a couple extra thousand dollars in my opinion.  
 

I’m looking to add a garmin 355 gps/com and a 275 HSI in my Mooney in the next month.  When funds allow I’ll add the AI.  

I agree. I had dual G5s in my last plane and loved them. Was pretty shocked to find the dual GI-275 were within a couple grand of the G5s. That’s a no brainer. Add more function and easier to install in the standard holes. The OP has a pretty tight panel and the G5s will require grinding to make them fit due to clearance issues. So I have an appointment in October to add those 275s to my E model. Add one of Garmins USB charger ports to the center piece of the yoke too. It can be linked to the GI-275s to transfer databases and can transfer flight/engine data for analysis. 
 

[RobertGary1]

On 8/2/2021 at 8:00 PM, apriav said:

Two G5s with gad 29 and gad 13. 

Use Davtron temp sensor.....much cheaper than Garmin.

Remove vacuum pump and all associated.

The nav indicators can go, move tach and mp in there place.

Move engine monitor closer.

There is no cheaper diversity attitude backup than a vacuum attitude indicator. Move it to the side and keep it. I was happy I did when both my 275’s went “AHRS align” at the same time  

[Jim Peace]

Can I spend your money?  I am really good at it...

Whatever you do, do not forget to flush...

seriously ditch the 430 if you are going to keep this plane for 10 more years....no need to have to go back and redo the panel.  Have it upgraded while everything else is torn out....

 

[Bryan G]

CGR-30 combo and the EI USB6A arrived, and the new panel is here too. Still waiting for the PMA450, and of course the GI-275s. Once I have the -275s, everything can be installed. 
 

Superior Aircraft did a very nice job designing and building the new panel, I love it. It’s a tease having most of the parts and having to wait still.
 

US6A will go right side, below the SL-30/GTX-327 stack. Extra space for a couple more circuit breakers as well.

[carusoam]

You know avionics, when…

You didn’t do what all the other kids are doing…

You didn’t hand a wad o dough to big G… (well… you did sort of…)

You selected the best audio panel… PSEngineering…

You selected the best engine monitor… EI….

You did choose some of the good things that Big G provides…

If you do go with a radio upgrade… check out what Avidyne is offering… you will probably be happy in the same way…

PP thoughts only, a few things I have seen selected around here…

Best regards,

-a-

[Bryan G]

Almost there!

[carusoam]

Al Mooney would be impressed!

Best regards,

-a-

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Bryan G said:

Almost there!

Looks great!  I’m curious… airspeed indicator is nice, but why’d you keep it? Another gi-275 there as an mfd would be great!  Maybe even one that could double as an asi?

[Bryan G]

@Ragsf15e Thanks! I like the old ASI better than having nothing at all, and I like how it looks with the panel symmetry! Also…I didn’t want to spend any more on the panel.