C vs J

[triple8s]

I have been yearning for an upgrade, I dont know why but i have. I have a 65 C with loads of go fast goodies, STEC 60-2, 2 Garmin SL-30 Navcoms, King DME, 4 place stereo intercom, AmeriKing 406 elt, GX-55, fresh prop, 88 gallon tanks, slick belly, gap seals, 201 cowling/windshield. I have found a 78 J it has dual KX 170 an old GPS Century 1 A/P, electric gear, and bladders nicer interior than my C. I guess my question is what will I get besides a younger bird, my C has less than 500 on an overhaul and the J is getting very close to TBO. I plan 147Kts in the C and easily get that everytime, what will most J's cruise? Other benefits? Should I just be happy with what I have?

Mike

[scottfromiowa]

Bigger baggage area.  Based on what you have done with your C everything else would seem to be a step sideways or back based on how you described the prospect vs. your plane.

[rob]

I faced this same issue last year before upgrading my C with an Aspen and assorted other goodies. I decided, like Jim stated, that it wasn't worth the transaction costs to move to a J. Especially since I am almost always flying alone or with one pax.

Curious, Jim - at 147kts, what sort of fuel flow would you expect out of the J?

[rbridges]

your plane is spec'd very similar to mine.  I have bladders with the 54 gallon capacity, and I have a powerflow exhaust.  Like you, I'm seeing around 150k cruise avg.

I think the longer fuselage of the F/201 look nicer.  Unless you're wanting to carry rear passengers often, I wouldn't see much advantage to the J besides the (slight) speed improvement and better fuel economy going LOP.

[jetdriven]

Early J at 147 KTAS around 8.2-8.5 GPH.  At 4-6K feet  At 9K around 7.8-8 GPH.   LOP of course.   ROP add one gallon.  If I has that nice of a C with all those mods I wouldnt trade it for a J unless I really needed the rear seat room.

 

 

[carusoam]

Mike,

I had to answer this same question a few years ago.   What I considered...

The J is ultimately an upgrade of the C.

J has More: speed, climb, HP, aerodynamics, space in back seat, space in baggage, fuel capacity, range, useful load?,

Better: fuel injection, alternator, air intake, interior lighting, electric gear, electric flaps, seating, ventilation, exterior lighting.

Less: carb ice, intake filter blockage, ROP

The J is better at IFR flight where actual IMC conditions may be encountered.

If you fly, day, VFR, with only small children in the back, it would be difficult justify the difference.

A modern panel in the C can cost as much as the plane itself.  Ultimately it is how the individual aircraft is outfitted.  An AP, GTN, Aspen, ipad and JPI can greatly improve any plane.

When I had to answer this question, my backseaters were growing and my C was near run-out.  It had one really nice feature though, it was paid for.

It came down to what did i want.  My current plane is 29 years newer than my first plane.  It has a similar feel to my cars.  ( my cars are 10 years old. ). The family is more comfortable with the newer plane.  I am happy with the newer plane.  I look forward to the day it is paid off....

Best regards,

-a-

[Parker_Woodruff]

Stick with what you've got unless you went with an M20R on the NA side of things or a turbo of some sort.

[carusoam]

I'm with Parker!

While looking to trade up from my 65C, I looked at many Js and stumbled into the low end m20R.  M20S Eagles are nice too....

Best regards,

-a-

[gregwatts]

My first Mooney was a 68 C. Since then I have owned a 71 F and a 76 F and now I own an 81 J.

For what you have in your C model vs the J model you mention, I believe it would be a lateral move. If money is no object, make the trade. To start and put all those goodies plus an OH in the J model....not to mention the hit you are going to take on the C model.....I don't think the 10" in length.....5' in the back seat area and 5" in the baggage compartment......and the extra 20 hp is a big enough gain.

My opinion comes from a financial perspective. In general, the J model is an obvious upgrade to a C model.......but you have an exceptional C model. $6K will buy you a very nice interior and as far as the gear goes, that can be swapped out if needed. There are many pilots that prefer the manual gear.

My opinion only!

[Lood]

Adding to all the other advantages mentioned above, the greater useful load coupled with the extra fuel of the J, is a huge plus point. Probably more so if you're going to fly your family around. Kids outgrow the payload of an airplane quicker than you like to think. If you only use two seats most of the time, it doesn't really matter, I guess.

[231Pilot]

Stick with the C.  It would take many AMUs to upgrade the panel and do the OH on the J.  If you are looking for more speed and reasonably modern avionics, there are affordable J models out there, but if you are going to upgrade, find a plane equipped the way you want it, don't buy a fixer-upper, fixer-uppers get to be very expensive.

[jetdriven]

His C has 88 gallons of fuel. A basic bladder J has only 54.7 usable.  (our J only has a 750 NM range with those bladders)  So in this case on a long cross country, the C wins.  On a 1200-1300 mile XC, the C wins by over an hour.

[carusoam]

The c in the comparison is nicely modified.  The j is closer to stock.

I would be forced to trade in the c, but not for THAT J.

The proper j for comparison would need digital radios and an AP etc.

This needs an apples to oranges comparison, not an apples to rotten oranges comparison.

Even then the comparison is dead in the water without knowing more about mission and budget?

The c is such a great machine. it's 40+ years old and still a strong contender in this debate.

-a-

[M20F]

Quote: jetdriven

His C has 88 gallons of fuel. A basic bladder J has only 54.7 usable.  (our J only has a 750 NM range with those bladders)  So in this case on a long cross country, the C wins.  On a 1200-1300 mile XC, the C wins by over an hour.

[NotarPilot]

Can someone experienced with both models tell us about the difference in preflighting the two different aircraft?  I've read that if you want to do a proper preflight of the engine compartment you have to spend about 15 minutes unscrewing the top and side panels just for a basic look of the engine and exhaust system.  Is this easier in a J model?

[KSMooniac]

I don't think any Mooney owner de-cowls a plane for a pre-flight!  The J only has a small oil access door so it isn't any easier to see anything under the cowl.  Preflight consists of an oil check and a quick visual inspection of the accessory cases area and the tops of the cylinders (looking for birds) and a wiggle of the exhaust (when cold).  I change my oil, and go over everything at this time checking for fuel injector line security, magneto mount security, leaks, etc.

The only Mooney cowl with quick access to a bigger area is the aftermarket LoPresti cowl that has a pair of big access doors on top.

[Hank]

My C has two access doors on the cowl, one for the oil and another in the same place on the left side. I peek around through both of them, look up the front for garbage, wiggle the alternator [ever since I found a mounting bolt laying in the bottom of the cowl!] and check the belt tension and oil level. That's about all that can be done.

[fantom]

Quote: KSMooniac

I don't think any Mooney owner de-cowls a plane for a pre-flight!  The J only has a small oil access door so it isn't any easier to see anything under the cowl.  Preflight consists of an oil check and a quick visual inspection of the accessory cases area and the tops of the cylinders (looking for birds) and a wiggle of the exhaust (when cold).  I change my oil, and go over everything at this time checking for fuel injector line security, magneto mount security, leaks, etc.

The only Mooney cowl with quick access to a bigger area is the aftermarket LoPresti cowl that has a pair of big access doors on top.

[John Pleisse]

3-8's!!

Your C is nice. I wouldn't change a thing until your mission requires it or you have issues warranting the upgrade. However, if you are choking to climb higher all the time and want it, go get it. A C-model with nice P&I, avionics and a 500 engine is a solid base to operate from for a decade to come. I would trade a worn-out J for your a/c without hesitation.

Speed between the C and J should not be a requisite and is negligible. I do 8 KTAS better in a 201. I would make a bolder jump to a high powered long body. Moving to J would almost be lateral for you (IMHO).