Debriefing experiences going missed in non-training scenarios.

[DXB]

So I had to go missed today because of getting to the MDA without seeing runway for the first time in my limited experience.  As a ~1000 hr rank amateur who's been instrument rated for 3.5 years, it was a novel and slightly harrowing experience that I found worth sharing for discussion/debrief. 

My destination weather forecast was 800 ceiling, 6 mi visibility and supposed to improve to that from a ceiling of 500ft at my time of departure.  I've flown approaches down to about 500ft a handful of times, and lower once (unforecast) without incident, and so I use 500 forecast ceiling as my personal minimum if there are RNAV LPV or ILS approaches. There was no alternate nearby with much better weather, but I had ample fuel reserve, so it did not seem like a no-go situation. My destination airport has a 5000 ft runway (15/33). Rwy 15 has RNAV LNAV with an MDA of 660-1 (540 AGL), and Rwy 33 has an RNAV LPV DA of 380-1 (272 AGL).  

When I got close, ATIS was reporting ceiling of 600. I was hoping to use the LPV for 33 but the wind is favoring 15, and approach says RNAV 15 is in use.  I'm wondering if I should ask for 33 instead, though approach was "can't squeeze a word in edgewise" busy.  I then observed a Learjet just ahead of me use 15 successfully, and so I go with the flow for 15.  I descend to MDA on the approach but can see zero out the front, with only faint patchy ground contact looking out the side.  A half mile from the runway, I tell tower I'll be going missed - they tell me to fly runway heading, climb to 2000, and hand me back approach.  Luckily now I'm getting some attention from approach. I request the RNAV 33 (LPV) and they vector me around for it.  I break out at 390 AGL and land uneventfully with a 10 kt tailwind but plenty of runway available.

My observations/debrief thus far:

- Though I can't see any obvious technical error I made even after looking at the Foreflight track log, it was a stressful experience for an amateur who doesn't fly approaches in actual regularly. It left me exhausted the rest of the day. 

- Though I've dealt with similar ceilings before, I didn't feel all that proficient - I fly in the system pretty often and did an IPC a couple weeks prior, but my relevant approach experience in IMC wasn't that all that recent, and I felt awkward the whole time. I probably wasn't that far away from a serious mistake.

- The urge to go a bit lower past the MDA was VERY hard to suppress when  lined up perfectly with the runway and there's faint intermittent ground contact looking out the side. The advisory only glideslope further worsens the tempation. I'm glad I ultimately listened to my instructor's voice in my head.  

- Maybe I should have asked for 33 from the outset, I'm not sure.  The overloaded approach controller and success of the Learjet just infront of me made me take what I was given, though landing with a tailwind on 33 was no issue, and my suspicion that I would need to use its LPV ultimately proved correct.

- I was glad I didn't have a passenger to worry about.

- It was comforting to have >3 hours fuel reserve when I went missed - It gave me the guts to try a second time rather than go somewhere else that was a sure thing.  

- I wonder if the Learjet ahead of me ducked under the MDA to land.  These are also not decisions I'm capable of making at twice the speed. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by DXB

[carusoam]

Great shared experience Dev!

In my two years of limited IFR flight experience,  I hardly used instrument procedures... never mind going to minimus or having to go missed...

Let me invite @Skates97to the discussion...  he is picking up IR experience as we speak...

Expect a few CFIIs to drop by soon...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

So far my only misses have been when wearing foggles. 

But I have one (1) hold on an IFR flight, above the layer, waiting for a plane ahead of me on the GPS approach. 

And one "Emergency breakaway, immediate right turn, hold over the college" from Tower. The instructor was familiar with the area as I was away from home.

Gotta be prepared!

Still waiting for my first "real" missed approach. 

[Andy95W]

Around 1995 as a private pilot with a relatively new Instrument Rating in my first M20C.  Flying the ILS to runway 1 in Killeen, TX at about 9:30 at night with my wife (first wife, actually).  Back then, there was a shopping center and car lot off the approach end of runway 1.  

At minimums, there was an unearthly glow in the whole cabin from all those parking lot lights- but no runway.  200 AGL with no runway in sight is freaky as hell even now when I think about it, I can still see that glow in the cabin.  Went missed and flew to Waco, TX to spend the night.

[Bob - S50]

Glad you made it safely.  I didn't answer your poll because I honestly can't remember if I ever went missed while IMC.  However, I have flown a Cat II approach to minimums (100 AGL) at 2300(L) to runway 4L at DTW and landed in a plane without autoland (DC9).  I've also flown a Cat I approach to runway 6 at GRB, seen just the approach lights at 200', picked up the runway at 100', and landed.  I also have a story for you.

I was at BNA (Nashville) waiting for an inbound crew to bring us the DC9 we were going to take outbound.  Weather was foggy.  The inbound crew went missed because they did not see the runway at minimums.  They also did not have alternate fuel because the forecast was good enough that they didn't need one.  The forecast turned out to be wrong, the fog had not burned off.  Fortunately, they had enough contingency fuel on board and weather was good at an airport that was pretty close (don't remember which one) so they landed, fueled up, and came back to BNA because the fog had burned off.

About that same time, the airlines and the FAA were crafting new ways to avoid needing an alternate with weather lower than 2000/3 depending on the type of approaches available at the destination.

Because of that I developed my own personal flow chart to determine if I was going to insist on an alternate, or at least enough fuel to get to an alternate even if the dispatcher insisted on calling it contingency fuel.  I don't have that chart anymore, but it included the following decision points:

1.  If I was at my destination right now, could I legally fly the approach?  If the answer is no, I want an alternate no matter how good the forecast.

2.  If I could fly the approach, but the current weather would require an alternate, is the current weather better or worse than the forecast for right now?  If it's at or better than the forecast, and the forecast would not require an alternate, I'll believe the forecast.  If it's worse than the forecast, go to #3.

3.  Is the weather improving or getting worse?  If the weather is getting worse, I want an alternate.

Now that I only fly for fun, I use a couple other criteria:

1.  I will not launch toward my destination until the current weather is at least 200 & 1/2 higher than published minimums for the approach I expect to fly.

2.  If the weather is anywhere close to minimums, I don't just want a 'legal' alternate, I want one that is a significant distance from my destination and has something approaching VFR weather.

3.  Once I get to my destination, I will fly all the way to minimums, not just the higher weather I wanted before I would take off.

[GeeBee]

I have to say, I look for opportunities to do an approach and missed approach for proficiency purposes. We often have what is known as a "cold wedge" which produces low ceilings. I usually depart my home airport, go to KAHN, do an approach to full stop. Then I go to KWDR on my own nav which full fulls the tracking requirement, ask to hold, then do an RNAV approach and a missed at KWDR because it will be below minimums then proceed to my home and do an ILS to full stop. 3 approaches, a missed, tracking and a hold in usually in 1.2 hours. The perfect proficiency run.

As for a "forced missed" one night, into KCAE I was a new Captain on the Mad Dog. I was able to use my "5575" exemption rather than be on high minimums. It was ground fog so the RVR was up and down. Dispatcher gave me a big bag of fuel. However, approach control would give me a good RVR and when turned over to tower, the "new guy" in the tower would gleefully advise when the RVR went below mins, while I was outside the FAF! He did that twice to me! So on the third approach, when approach control turned. us over, I said to the F/O "don't call him until we are inside the fix." We waited about 15 seconds to call the tower, and executed the approach and landed.

[jlunseth]

I had to do it once, at a Mooney PPP. We were shooting an ILS intending to land, but for whatever reason the Navcomm (430) did not receive the glideslope. I tried just flying it as a Localizer approach (different minimums), but we spend a little time trying to get the GS working and I got on the Loc too late to get to the MDA, so we went around. It worked fine the second time. The problem was that there was a Tstorm immediately off the departure end of the runway, when we shot the approach the second time it was just a wall of water. Probably good we went around early on the missed, so we did not fly into that thing.

[Marauder]

Dev - back in my young and "what was I thinking?" days, I found myself in both scenarios you polled about. The equipment failure was on an NDB approach (some may argue that an ADF is defective by design  ) and I have flown a few missed approaches because of changing weather. Like Bob mentioned above, setting your personal minimums will help minimize the feeling of having your head in the mouth of an alligator fearful of tickling the tongue of the beast.

In my case, having an engine problem over an area of low IFR helped expedite resetting my personal minimums about IFR mins. I think it was Jim Peace that talked about flying lawnmowers. There is truth that single pilot IFR in a flying lawnmower is a lot more demanding and requires you are on your A game throughout the flight. 

The only thing I would add to Bob's flowchart is:

- Understand the en route weather. We are in single engine airplanes and flying over large expanses of low IMC increases the risk. Also, I pay close attention to icing and storm predictions.

And from the archives of the old and dumb category. When I was based in NY, our airport did not have an approach. One of the older pilots that all of us young guys looked up to, told us he built an NDB approach using his King ADF and the local radio station. I can still remember being at the airport and watching him come out of a low cloud deck about 200 feet south of the runway and over the adjacent road. Fortunately, he didn't hit the telephone poles and managed to climb back out. I heard him back on the Rochester approach frequency asking for the ILS to a nearby airport. He never talked about his famous NDB approach again.

 

[David Lloyd]

Had a missed called at CLT early one morning in LIFR conditions due to a car on the runway.  I was less than 500' above ground.  Another early morning approach, inbound from the Happy Hill NDB to W98 (now FCI) and Richmond approach asked, "You do know the runway is closed, don't you?  Uh, no. " It was notamed, they are using the taxiway."  That was way before the do it yourself briefings.  Flight service told me about the 200' towers 5 miles from the airport but not a word about a closed runway.

[midlifeflyer]

I did two real missed approaches during my training. Both because we saw nothing. One at MDA on an NDB approach. The other an ILS. 

[jaylw314]

Geez guys, I've had several missed approaches and have only had my instrument ticket for a couple years.  Of course, most of those were because I went out LOOKING for bad weather to practice approaches to minimums, but there were at least 3 instances weather being worse than reported causing missed approaches.  The last one was interesting--I flew to my IA's shop last year for the annual, and the ATIS was reporting 600' ceilings.  I asked ATC for the tailwind LPV approach, and the controller hemmed and hawed, but finallyl gave it to me.  I didn't see the runway on the LPV DA at 200', however.  On the missed flying straight over the runway, the opposite side looked clearer.  I did the BC localizer approach with a 400' MDA and broke out with plenty of room to spare.

[DXB]

Thanks to all who responded and shared experiences - seems like the majority of folks do go missed at some point if they utilize their instrument ticket substantially. As my first time getting to the MDA and staring into the void, I found it to be a different psychological space than being under the foggles, deliberately descending to that altitude, and stopping before a practice missed. Simulated approaches have their limitations. It was also quite different from the gratification of spotting the runway at that altitude or higher in real world flying, which already I'd experienced several times.  Nothing seems to prepare fully for going missed except the having the real world experience when you want to be on the ground. I'm glad to have had it finally. I suspect the chances of doing something really dumb goes down a bit for the next time.  

[Skates97]

Dev, I don't have much to add to the conversation as I'm just working my way towards a check ride. I can't relate to the feeling of looking for the runway, seeing nothing, and going around. I am looking forward to May when there is a consistent marine layer everyday until around noon to work with, but it is rarely low enough to get you to minimums. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of worry/concern when descending and under the foggles because I have a CFII in the right seat and there is the trust that he doesn't want to hit something any more than I do, so if I was off on my altitude or alignment I have trust in him that he is going to say something. I can imagine it is a much different feeling descending through the clouds, either with someone on board or alone...

It reminds me of a story my dad told. Part of his time in the Air Force was as an instructor in T-38's. They were on a cross country with the student under the hood. At one part of the flight they were in IMC and he told the student he could take it off and look around. After a couple minutes the student asked if he could go back under the hood, it seemed he was more comfortable thinking that at least my dad could see outside and what was going on.

I will mention one comment about the advisory glideslope. The RNAV RWY 24 approach into KFUL is an LNAV but the GNC355 does provide an advisory glideslope. When we flew it last Friday evening I crossed the FAF and then started the descent down watching for the MDA and keeping the dot on the advisory glideslope centered. The MDA is 900' so I reached up to pull the foggles off right about 920'. There was the runway right in front of us, but the PAPI was showing 1 white and 3 red. The dot was still centered on the advisory glideslope, but we were just a touch low. It was a good experience to file away from my training, and if I'm ever tempted to try and follow that advisory glideslope as you mentioned below the MDA I need to remember that experience and go around.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Geez guys, I've had several missed approaches and have only had my instrument ticket for a couple years

Personal minimums may have something to do with it. It could definitely happen and I am prepared for the eventuality, but my personal minimums - higher now than when I got my ticket - make it unlikely I will need to go missed due to not seeing anything when I get down there. 

[jaylw314]

25 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Personal minimums may have something to do with it. It could definitely happen and I am prepared for the eventuality, but my personal minimums - higher now than when I got my ticket - make it unlikely I will need to go missed due to not seeing anything when I get down there. 

True, most of the times I was hunting around the region for bad weather and IFR practice knowing the weather at home was okay.  It's not hard to find approaches to minimums on the coast while it's completely clear inland.   I haven't actually needed to go missed on a long trip away from home yet, that's when my personal minimums come into play...

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by jaylw314

[201Steve]

I went missed on my first approach by myself in actual. Descended through a layer a few thousand feet deep, everything was perfect. It was a simple, straight in  LNAV approach. Ceiling around 800. I was feeling great about it, told my passenger to let me know once they saw the ground, but not to get too excited. Don’t mention it if you see it faintly. Then, my CDI started deflecting, looked at the GPS, after a brief moment or two of thinking, I realized it wanted me to hold. Ughh. I played around with it, a little less confident at this point, hand flying, and after my frantic piddling, I thought this was not something I should try to fix on the fly and powered up to go around. Rather than try it again, I opted to fly 20 miles west to VFR and called a car. I am an idiot and forgot to verify the sequencing in my FPL. My perfect solo approach was squandered and I was pretty bummed out about it but, I still feel like it was the safest thing to do and we’ll put that in the experience bag. It was mentally and emotionally draining. Oh, and once we got on the ground, that passenger said, “I saw the ground but you said don’t mention it unless we were all clear!!!” Doh. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

True, most of the times I was hunting around the region for bad weather and IFR practice knowing the weather at home was okay.  It's not hard to find approaches to minimums on the coast while it's completely clear inland.   I haven't actually needed to go missed on a long trip away from home yet, that's when my personal minimums come into play...

 

That may be how your coast works, but I've seen the low cloud deck extend from the Appalachian foothills in both Carolinas clear to both the Atlantic and Gulf coasts . . . . Roughly 1000 all, but sometimes less. It cleared up just before Orlando. Not sure how far north it went,but it was out of sight between AVL and GSP.

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, Skates97 said:

It reminds me of a story my dad told. Part of his time in the Air Force was as an instructor in T-38's. They were on a cross country with the student under the hood. At one part of the flight they were in IMC and he told the student he could take it off and look around. After a couple minutes the student asked if he could go back under the hood, it seemed he was more comfortable thinking that at least my dad could see outside and what was going on.

4 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I will mention one comment about the advisory glideslope. The RNAV RWY 24 approach into KFUL is an LNAV but the GNC355 does provide an advisory glideslope. When we flew it last Friday evening I crossed the FAF and then started the descent down watching for the MDA and keeping the dot on the advisory glideslope centered. The MDA is 900' so I reached up to pull the foggles off right about 920'. There was the runway right in front of us, but the PAPI was showing 1 white and 3 red. The dot was still centered on the advisory glideslope, but we were just a touch low. It was a good experience to file away from my training, and if I'm ever tempted to try and follow that advisory glideslope as you mentioned below the MDA I need to remember that experience and go around.

Sometimes the PAPI/VASI/whatever and the glidepath don't align, and there may be a note in the approach plate to that effect.

However, I go around the state and fly various GPS approaches VFR just to keep proficient in the airplane, equipment, etc.   There were three or four airports here where the glidepath was consistently dumping me out in the middle of the runway on runways short enough that it would barely be or not be possible to land from that position.   Yesterday I went back up to one of them and this time it dumped me out at MDA with lots of red on the PAPIs.   If I'd kept down the glidepath I think it would have put me in the dirt short of the threshold.   That was the first time in quite a while at that airport that it wasn't consistently putting me about halfway down the runway, and it put me short of the threshold instead.

A couple years ago it seemed like they were always right on where I expected them to be, and now I don't have a ton of confidence that the glidepaths are reliable with much precision.