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M20J Acrobatics


rwiseman

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17 hours ago, EricJ said:

I cycle it to make sure it responds, and if it does I think it's fine.   With the new governor, though, I do notice that if I cycle it twice, the second one is a lot quicker than the first

Is it only in cold weather? the oil inside the spinner will be colder than the one in the engine, cycling the first time mix the bits, on second time it has the same viscosity everywhere 

On hot days, the first one should go smooth 

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1 hour ago, Ibra said:

Is it only in cold weather? the oil inside the spinner will be colder than the one in the engine, cycling the first time mix the bits, on second time it has the same viscosity everywhere 

On hot days, the first one should go smooth 

Negative. What happens in the spinner stays in the spinner...

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There is a local IA and pilot that loves Mooneys.  He has mentioned several times that we should go up and do a few rolls.  I have resisted that idea and thanks to this thread realizing not only is it illegal, it's pretty dumb.  It is simple to spend other people's money and destroy other peoples nice things.

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3 hours ago, Ibra said:

Is it only in cold weather? the oil inside the spinner will be colder than the one in the engine, cycling the first time mix the bits, on second time it has the same viscosity everywhere 

On hot days, the first one should go smooth 

It has been cold here, yes, probably 60s Fahrenheit.   I haven't worn shorts for a couple of months.  ;)

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4 hours ago, Ibra said:

So no heat or pressure transfer between engine & spinner oils when you recycle? 

Well certainly pressure transfer, that’s how the bloody thing works...:P I imagine there is some small amount heat and maybe even particulate transfer.  The governor is constantly making minor pressure adjustments to maintain rpm.  Not much heat transfer in my experience. I’ve drained cool oil out of the hub of a warm engine.

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16 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Well certainly pressure transfer, that’s how the bloody thing works...:P I imagine there is some small amount heat and maybe even particulate transfer.  The governor is constantly making minor pressure adjustments to maintain rpm.  Not much heat transfer in my experience. I’ve drained cool oil out of the hub of a warm engine.

So on cold winter mornings, even having had the engine heat on all night, why does the prop respond so slowly the first time I pull the center knob all the way back, and so quickly the second time? Mine's been doing that at least since I bought the plane in 2007.

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12 minutes ago, Hank said:

So on cold winter mornings, even having had the engine heat on all night, why does the prop respond so slowly the first time I pull the center knob all the way back, and so quickly the second time? Mine's been doing that at least since I bought the plane in 2007.

I would imagine that has to do with the governor getting warmer oil. Doesn’t have anything to do with the oil in the hub.

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12 hours ago, EricJ said:

It has been cold here, yes, probably 60s Fahrenheit.   I haven't worn shorts for a couple of months.  ;)

Thought of this post this morning when I found the downstairs hallway was drafty and likely in the 40s. One of my kids had left a side door ajar last night. My fault for not checking it.  Temp outside was a balmy 17°.

Edited by Shadrach
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15 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I would imagine that has to do with the governor getting warmer oil. Doesn’t have anything to do with the oil in the hub.

That makes sense to me. Besides the governor, there’s a long external line to the front bearing and that’s going to be full of cold viscous oil until things heat up.

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@carusoamOh yes. I’m following. 
I found that log entry and other posts with tips on flight physics and reasons not to violate POH limitations interesting reads. 
But my question was really simple and I believe too much was read into it. 
I just wanted to know if any one had tried it. That logbook entry proves someone did almost 30 years ago. My 20J is closer to 40 yrs old. 
I had/have no intent to fly my plane in acrobatics.  Not a newbie to my plane,  I just don’t post often, I’m flying instead. And yes I have received acro instruction for all who recommended the same. 
Falling off, dropping the nose too steep, too much speed, not enough roll authority, short coupling, slow gyro rate of change, all good info and somewhat expected.  So those who may have tried it anyway,  how did it go for you?  
One of the early posters may have hit the nail on  in the head with the response “if they did, they are not going to talk about it in a public forum.”
 :-) 

Thanks all for posting. 
 

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On 2/23/2021 at 1:42 PM, rwiseman said:

@carusoamOh yes. I’m following. 
I found that log entry and other posts with tips on flight physics and reasons not to violate POH limitations interesting reads. 
But my question was really simple and I believe too much was read into it. 
I just wanted to know if any one had tried it. That logbook entry proves someone did almost 30 years ago. My 20J is closer to 40 yrs old. 
I had/have no intent to fly my plane in acrobatics.  Not a newbie to my plane,  I just don’t post often, I’m flying instead. And yes I have received acro instruction for all who recommended the same. 
Falling off, dropping the nose too steep, too much speed, not enough roll authority, short coupling, slow gyro rate of change, all good info and somewhat expected.  So those who may have tried it anyway,  how did it go for you?  
One of the early posters may have hit the nail on  in the head with the response “if they did, they are not going to talk about it in a public forum.”
 :-) 

Thanks all for posting. 
 


A lot of thought goes into some responses....

If you were to ask a simple question like how often do you fly over MGTW...

Or, how often do fly a low pass, 10’ off the ground...

 

You will see the same tactful responses...

The community is looking out for you...

 

.... and enjoying the conversation as it goes along... :)

If you want short answers.... the question has to be really specific, with all the disclaimers covered...

What prompted you ask this question?

Best regards,

-a-

 

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On 2/14/2021 at 12:02 PM, takair said:

Great insight Ben.  Did some snooping and your credentials say alot!  
 

I seem to recall there being some grainy video of that performance, but can’t locate it now.  It seems they only did a limited number of air shows in the Mooney.  Did Gene offer any insight on what it was like to fly those shows in the Mooney?  Did it not catch on as an act?  It is kind of cool seeing what an expert can do with an every day airplane....although I think they re-ticket them as experimental for that purpose.  Another one I recall was Jim Franklin in the Aerostar....which was kind of cool.

Yeah I see you taught at Tuckers Tutima school....I never met you Ben but I took instruction there in the early 90s when i had my Pitts S1S....great experience

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