Trouble in paradise

[67 m20F chump]

We found trouble in my wing.  What do you guys think?  I’m balls deep into this plane so I’m going to fix it.  What is the best way to go about that?  The location is next to the fuel tank close to where the roll cage attaches.

[Nukemzzz]

Oh no... 

I hate to say it, but that might be terminal based on what I've seen on other posts about this type of corrosion. It appears to be the wing spar top cap just right of the passenger seat.  I'll bet this is "new wing" time or at least the full wing has to be removed to replace that cap.  I'll let the other, true experts on this, chime in.  

What does your A&P/IA say?

[67 m20F chump]

Well the Mooney service center that did the inspection before I bought it says it’s no problem.  Everyone else said it’s a no go.  From my understanding you get 10% of the thickness to work with so I say fix it.  Now what’s the best way to do that?

[gsxrpilot]

I'd take it back to the MSC that did the inspection and get them to fix it. A good Mooney shop will have done this stuff before.

[Sheriff23]

I agree....take it back to the MSC.....or take a trip to Texas....See Don Maxwell.

[chriscalandro]

Clean it with scotchbrite and see where you end up. It might be ok. 
 

after it’s cleaned and you’re at good metal, alodyne it, measure it, and prime it. 

[Nukemzzz]

39 minutes ago, 67 m20F chump said:

Well the Mooney service center that did the inspection before I bought it says it’s no problem.  Everyone else said it’s a no go.  From my understanding you get 10% of the thickness to work with so I say fix it.  Now what’s the best way to do that?

My comment was based on how it looked like more than 10% but it's hard to judge with 2D pictures.  You might want to inspect the other hard to see areas as well before going much further.  There is another one under some access panels under the rear seat for example.

[Nukemzzz]

1 minute ago, chriscalandro said:

Clean it with scotchbrite and see where you end up. It might be ok. 
 

after it’s cleaned and you’re at good metal, alodyne it, measure it, and prime it. 

There is a very specific procedure for removing corrosion from a part like this...direction of material removal and dish shape, what to do with corrosion vs type of corrosion, etc.  I don't think "he" should do anything.  

[67 m20F chump]

It’s pitted deep.  If you look close you can see scratches on the tails of the rivets.  It’s been messed with.  I’m at repair the spar or replace the wing.  Anyone done it?

Hell no it will not be going back to the msc.  That would be like burning money.

 

[MooneyMitch]

2 hours ago, Nukemzzz said:

 

It appears to be the wing spar top cap just right of the passenger seat.  I'll bet this is "new wing" time or at least the full wing has to be removed to replace that cap.  

Not that this owner is at this process point, but possibly for future reference, my experience with replacement of spar cap on my former ‘67 F model.........rather than remove the wing, the mechanic simply removed fuselage side panel rivets, and was able to pull skin away enough to slide spar cap out and eventually slide new cap in place.

This resulted in less labor from wing removal and some paint touched up rivets. 

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, 67 m20F chump said:

From my understanding you get 10% of the thickness to work with so I say fix it.  Now what’s the best way to do that?

The best way is going to be spendy, get rid of the ugly so there’s no doubt 

[gsxrpilot]

8 minutes ago, 67 m20F chump said:

It’s pitted deep.  If you look close you can see scratches on the tails of the rivets.  It’s been messed with.  I’m at repair the spar or replace the wing.  Anyone done it?

Hell no it will not be going back to the msc.  That would be like burning money.

 

I was in this same situation 4 or 5 years ago. I was told by several A&P/IA's that I'd have to replace the wing. I went so far as to source a used wing and was looking at shipping options. Two MSC's I talked to said it could be repaired. I ended up going to SWTA where they brought in a sheet metal specialist who worked on it to remove all the corrosion, and apply a fix that was prescribed by a DAR (is is DAR or DER)? The whole job ended up costing $2600. 

A good MSC will save you money rather than costing you money. But it's your money...

[AerostarDriver]

Wing replacement cost is right around 17,000... That was for an M20E.

[67 m20F chump]

I found a wing 5k delivered.  A shop quoted me 5k to swap the wing.  I’m trying to figure out if it can be done on my hangar.  
 

Paul you got a hell of a deal.  The part I’m going after goes into the fuel tank. The 2 shops I talked to said the wing would be the cheaper option.  Did you take any before pics?

[carusoam]

Chump,

Is it this section here only, or is there more?

There are a few people around here that have had the honor of identifying, measuring and replacing... corrosion damaged spar  bits and pieces...

 

There is a recent for sale thread with a Mooney wing around here...

finding the right person to identify how big of a problem this is will be important...

measuring the depth of the pit shouldn’t be too hard for a person who is familiar...

Calling DMax will take away most of the mystery...

Start with a solid plan...  an hour or two with DMax may be worth the money...

See if @M20Doc is available for a consult...

See if @Old Chub is in the neighborhood...

See if those parts can be swapped out with the wing in place...

I re-oriented the pic using standard orientation... did I get it right?

note: use caution with powered cleaning tools, to avoid damaging the fastener heads....

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Good luck with your next steps...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[67 m20F chump]

It’s the only spot on the wing and the only spot on the entire aircraft.  I have 2 weeks of training at work so I’m going to sit in it and think up a plan.  Any of you that have been down this road I would like to hear about it.  
 

I did talk to dmax about this.  This part of the wing runs into the fuel tank so it’s an expensive repair.  The options are replace the cap or replace the wing.  

[ArtVandelay]

Every time I see corrosion in the interior of the cabin, I wonder how many of these are a result of someone spilling a coke in the past?

[MooneyMitch]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Every time I see corrosion in the interior of the cabin, I wonder how many of these are a result of someone spilling a coke in the past?

My corrosion was from what appeared to be mice pee.  The plane sat unattended in a vulnerable hangar for about 6 months prior to my purchase and pre - buy (uh-hum ) missed it.

4 hours ago, 67 m20F chump said:

 The options are replace the cap or replace the wing.  

Remember please, my experience, the cap can be removed/installed by pulling fuselage side panel back without the expense of wing removal.

[67 m20F chump]

I was thinking mouse for me too.  It’s between the roll cage and fuel tank.  I think the wing is the cheaper option.  Do you mind giving some more details and what you spent?  The guys I talked to about repair are talking 20k.

[M20F]

I find $5k to remove and replace a wing somewhat suspicious.  

Working in the shipping industry I find a wing delivered for $5K very suspicious.  Unless somebody is towing it 20 miles or so with a pick up truck.  
 
Would take your time in decision making, patience in these things is a virtue.  

[67 m20F chump]

I hear ya.  The guy with the wing is building a house 100 mi from me so he drives here anyway.  I’m told the r&r takes 100-150hours.  I was hoping someone with experience would comment about it.  I can’t be the first one down the path.

 

my thoughts

5k wing

reseal tank if leaking 7k

5k r&r and I agree that sounds low.

 

this will also make me paint the plane sooner than I would like.

[carusoam]

Chump,

Check in with Erik... @aviatoreb

He may have had a similar experience...

In which case there may be logic and pics to go with that... 

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Chump,

Check in with Erik... @aviatoreb

He may have had a similar experience...

In which case there may be logic and pics to go with that... 

Best regards,

-a-

67 just emailed to me and I replied by direct pm.  Before I noticed this thread.

Nothing private in it - but I am happy to cut and paste that here if 67 doesn't mind.

[67 m20F chump]

Go ahead,  it may help the next guy too.

thanks

 

[AerostarDriver]

5 hours ago, 67 m20F chump said:

I was thinking mouse for me too.  It’s between the roll cage and fuel tank.  I think the wing is the cheaper option.  Do you mind giving some more details and what you spent?  The guys I talked to about repair are talking 20k.

My E just had a wing replacement from Don Maxwell just before I bought it. When it was all said and done it was 17. Some exploration was done to see if the rear sub spar could be replaced which may have driven the price up a little but I would budget between 15 and 20k. Also keep in mind that the wing that gets put on is likely not going to be as nice as the wing your taking off. For example, I had to go in and re-run the pitot heat because some how that had gotten cut in the gear well.