Starting Search for a Bravo

[PilotGrant]

Hey everyone! 230hr TT instrument-rated pilot here - 140hrs in a 172, 80hrs in a DA40, the rest in a 210, PA28, and a PA22. All of the planes I have flown have been rental, club, or friend planes.

I started flight training 3 years ago so that I could earn my license to take fun trips with my Fiancé & friends that would otherwise not be possible/easy with just a car. About 65% of my time has been training/currency-focused, and the other 35% has been longer fun cross-country trips. I'm based out of central Pennsylvania and have flown to Nashville TN, Charleston SC, Asheville NC, Cody WY, and a few other closer places. My trip to Cody WY to visit Yellowstone/Tetons was a ton of fun, but doing it in the NA DA40 made me not want to do that kind of long-distance flight again until I got a plane that could go much faster than 130knots and higher than 12k feet.

My business is growing to the point where I will be starting to take regular trips (~1 time per month) to Durango, CO. Also, my sister recently moved to LA, and keeping away from the airlines would be a cool thing to be able to do. Based on my experience with the Cody WY trip, I do not want to fly these long cross-country trips unless I can keep the total time in the air down below ~8hrs for each leg (Clocked 12.7hrs on the Hobbs in one day on the way back from Cody, not interested in doing that again). I only want to have to make a single fuel stop on a given leg, too. I can tie in a trip to LA with a normal business trip to Durango, so the longest leg I need to account for with the <8hr and fuel stop requirements is KCXY -> KDRO, which is just shy of 1500nm. 

While my trips to Durango will be monthly, I do not need my dispatch rate to be 100%. If I need to wait a day or two before departing/returning, or take a stop in the middle for a day, that is not a problem. I do still have to maintain some kind of loose schedule, though, so the dispatch rate has to be relatively high. These trips will occur in the winter so FIKI TKS is essentially required in my book, but I will not be flying in the Rockies in IMC (If I do, it will be after many trips and much more experience gained). 

I'll want to take my Fiancé with me to Durango occasionally. I don't plan on taking an additional 2 passengers with my anywhere that takes longer than 1.5hrs to get to until I can afford a plane with spacious club seating, so as long as I can fit 2 normal adults in the back with a little luggage and fly for 2 hours, I'm good.

My budget is around $200k for a plane that isn't perfect, but won't be at high risk for 10's of AMUs of deferred maintenance costs, and has FIKI and a good avionics/autopilot setup. I can go up to $250k if it has a fresh engine with a minimal required maintenance backlog and good avionics. I don't mind going way down to get an EOL engine that needs a rebuild and some maintenance. My plan is to fly this theoretical plane around 500 hrs, then upgrade to a turbine when I'm in a better financial position and have the right piloting experience to be safe doing so.

 

So, with all this in mind, it looks like the M20M Bravo is the plane that fits the bill. The twins that can fly high enough are too expensive to buy and maintain, the SR22T is too expensive to buy, and the T210 and turbo lance don't fly fast enough. The Bonanza 36TC looks close, but to get one in good shape without expecting to pay a bunch of maintenance costs, $300k-$350k appears to be a more reasonable expectation (Also, the engine seems to be even more troublesome than the Bravo's). 

I've read through all the interesting topics in the Mooney Bravo Owners forum and plan to do more research over the next few months, but would like to get everyone's opinions to make sure I'm on the right track with the Bravo, in terms of its capabilities and expected price range. Learned a lot about lean and power settings on this forum, looks like running 32/2200 or 30/2400 in the high-teens will get me the speed I need but keep engine/turbo life within TBO range with the lower CHT and TIT temps. Lots of info about LOP, still need to figure out if ~200knots is achievable at those power levels at ~20LOP (Assuming the particular plane can run LOP), or if >190knots is only really available when ~100ROP. 

I'd be looking for one with:

• FIKI
• An autopilot that can handle precision approaches and altitude preselects
• Good-enough avionics (Steam gauges are fine, but need WAAS and prefer Garmin's GPS/MFDs and a newer audio controller/radio/nav setup)
• Pre-installed GAMI, fine wire plugs, and JPI are highly preferred
• Preferably long range tanks
• A/C would be cool, but not necessary, probably too heavy
• Relatively clean PPI, i.e. no major foreseeable upcoming issues that aren't reflected in the price

Based on everyone's experience with the Bravo market, is it reasonable to be looking out for one like this in the $200k, max $250k price range?

Thanks for all the help!

Grant

Edited January 12, 2021 by PilotGrant
Fix mistype

[ZuluZulu]

Make sure you're on @jgarrison's email list for new arrivals, if you're not already.

https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com

[PilotGrant]

1 hour ago, ZuluZulu said:

Make sure you're on @jgarrison's email list for new arrivals, if you're not already.

https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com

Awesome, thanks, just sent them an email to get on the list. 

[alextstone]

Hi @PilotGrant!  Welcome to MooneySpace!  I fly a '95 Bravo and this is my 4th Mooney.  Your price point seems in range although lately the selection of Bravos has been a bit thin.  As was mentioned, Jimmy Garrison is a great resource as is Richard Simile at Thunderbird Aircraft: https://thunderbirdaircraft.com/aircraft-for-sale  I've purchased from both of them and in my view you cannot go wrong with either.

You're probably not going to find one with AC, BTW.    Keep the questions coming for the group and you will find some great info here.

Alex

 

[PilotGrant]

4 minutes ago, alextstone said:

Hi @PilotGrant!  Welcome to MooneySpace!  I fly a '95 Bravo and this is my 4th Mooney.  Your price point seems in range although lately the selection of Bravos has been a bit thin.  As was mentioned, Jimmy Garrison is a great resource as is Richard Simile at Thunderbird Aircraft: https://thunderbirdaircraft.com/aircraft-for-sale  I've purchased from both of them and in my view you cannot go wrong with either.

You're probably not going to find one with AC, BTW.    Keep the questions coming for the group and you will find some great info here.

Alex

 

Cool, thanks for the feedback. I wasn't sure how much variety the Bravo market usually has since I only just started looking, so that's helpful.

Just sent Richard an email. 

[carusoam]

A sign of the market getting thin...

I received a blind letter today asking if I was interested in selling my plane...  wasted postage on that one...  

Good luck with the hunt...

Contacting Jimmy is the best route... Second to that, is contacting every MSC... third, mailing everyone in the FAA’s data base...

Turbo Long Bodies make a great second plane to own...  it wouldn’t be a terrible idea to get some time in an M20J...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales man...

Best regards,

-a-

[PilotGrant]

14 minutes ago, carusoam said:

A sign of the market getting thin...

I received a blind letter today asking if I was interested in selling my plane...  wasted postage on that one...  

Good luck with the hunt...

Contacting Jimmy is the best route... Second to that, is contacting every MSC... third, mailing everyone in the FAA’s data base...

Turbo Long Bodies make a great second plane to own...  it wouldn’t be a terrible idea to get some time in an M20J...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales man...

Best regards,

-a-

I better pick one up quick before they're all gone! This is the only one I see out there today that deserves more than a first glance for my mission. 

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/193966351/1993-mooney-m20m-bravo-piston-single-aircraft

$220k but appears to have everything I'm looking for except for extended tanks.

Planning on fully embracing the need for proper transition training. Finding a good Mooney CFI in my area is high on my To-Do, and getting some time in a Mooney over the next few months would be great, along with finding a long body to look at in person to know what I'm getting into.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, PilotGrant said:

 

Hey everyone! 230hr TT instrument-rated pilot here - 140hrs in a 172, 80hrs in a DA40, the rest in a 210, PA28, and a PA22. . . . . . . . . . So, with all this in mind, it looks like the M20M Bravo is the plane that fits the bill.

The first thing I would do is get an insurance quote  @Parker_Woodruff

[Parker_Woodruff]

I was just talking to someone today about Mooneys and had a thought...I've flown a lot of Mooneys, but never the M20M.

With the instrument rating we can probably get a decent quote.

You're of the right mind to get as close to turbine performance as you can before upgrading.  In this insurance market, fly that Bravo all you can...a turbine transition will be expensive.  Unless you want a twin turbine, then you might need to be looking at Piper Senecas.

Parker

214-295-5055

Parker@airspeedinsurance.com

 

[carusoam]

Adding extended tanks to a Bravo is a pretty well a known science...  and worth the dough...

Going to 130 gallons can be a bit tight on the UL.

Long Bodies and and Long Cross countries are perfect together...

DanB has posted a few picks of his Bravo crossing the country...  

Go Mooney!

-a-

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, PilotGrant said:

I better pick one up quick before they're all gone! This is the only one I see out there today that deserves more than a first glance for my mission. 

https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/193966351/1993-mooney-m20m-bravo-piston-single-aircraft

$220k but appears to have everything I'm looking for except for extended tanks.

Planning on fully embracing the need for proper transition training. Finding a good Mooney CFI in my area is high on my To-Do, and getting some time in a Mooney over the next few months would be great, along with finding a long body to look at in person to know what I'm getting into.

I don't know of any Bravos that ever had AC.  I think AC was first introduced in the Ovation.  Having said that, I couldn't think of a worst waste of money (unless you lived in Arizona and idled on the ground very long in the summertime).  You can climb out of the heat in no time.  There was an Acclaim that I know of that had AC, Long Range Tanks, and TKS.  That was requested by the purchaser of the NEW airplane.  I heard the salesman was fired shortly thereafter, when after the plane was ready for delivery, the buyer forfeited his deposit and walked away because he discovered the useful load was 50 pounds at full fuel and TKS fluid.

The Bravo is a great airplane.  I've probably owned mine longer than most anyone at 28½ years. However, if you think you are going to get an airplane that's 30 years old and not have unexpected maintenance issues (sometimes large), think again.  You can go a couple of months without one and then, boom, you get hit with one.  And NEVER think to yourself or say out loud, "I haven't had any issues for the past few months".  Invariably within a day or two you will.  My plane is going in tomorrow on one of those unexpected issues, the right wing fuel senders need replacement.

Personally, while I have GAMIs, I don't like running LOP.  For unknown reasons most Bravos trying to run LOP don't do well.  The plane is a great airplane flying West to East.  Get up into the upper teens and with the usual Westerlies you will easily do over 200 knots GS, in fact usually 220-245 knots GS at 17,000 feet.  I've made it San Jose to Akron, Ohio in 10½ hours with I think 2 fuel stops, then on to Hartford the next day in a couple of hours.  Flying West is usually an exercise in staying low for lower headwinds.  But, if you have to go higher for mountains, you can do that even into massive headwinds to avoid lower level turbulence.  A couple of years ago I came back from a complete tank reseal job in Willmar, MN in 9½ hours with an overnight in Omaha due to weather, then Pueblo (3 hours) at 6,000 feet into 40 knot headwinds after a cold front, Milford (3 hours) with 60-65 knot headwinds at 16,000, and on to San Jose in 3½ hours at times at 20,000 due to weather over the Sierras.  I personally like modest 2½ to 3 hour flights for comfort.  That's going to take you over 500 nm. 

Factory Remans at TBO; $85,000 including labor.

The above airplane looks like it fits the bill for you, however, except for the GTN 650, with mostly 25 year old technology.  You WILL need one thing that in not in the description.  There is no mention of GPSS, which you just have to have, especially with the GTN 650.  Installed, it probably $2,500.  

And don't get me started on the seductiveness of the new technology.  My plane has almost every new gadget that Garmin has come out with.

The last thing I'll say that some will disagree with, is the need for long range tanks.  The closest I ever came to running out of fuel was in a Bravo with longe range tanks over New Mexico at night helping a new purchaser bring the plane back to California.  When I asked about the fuel situation where the plane was purchased I was led to believe there was plenty of fuel to make the trip to Deer Valley (you can't tell by looking at fuel levels in the the tank).  After the red light came on for the right tank (3 gallons remaining), I declared LOW FUEL, and made it directly with no delays to Williams Gateway.  When I topped the tanks there it turns out we had 11 gallons remaining, not enough to have made it to Deer Valley comfortably.  Unless you top the tanks, you don't have a good way of knowing the exact situation of how much fuel is in each tank.  There is a guide in the POH AFMS, but the fuel gauges cannot be calibrated to the full amount.

So, there is a quick synopsis of the M20M Bravo.

[irishpilot]

Do some more Bravo research. 29/2400 and 27/2200 are the two most widely accepted power settings. Also, AC eats into your UL. Also, extended tanks are great, but eat into UL and you can stuff over 100 gal on the stock tanks. I routinely run up against UL when flying my family.

 

The FIKI works great, but I don't file into known icing. I've used it a few times encountering ice and it works as advertised.

 

PM me and we can chat. There are a lot more Bravo-isms and things to look for during prebuy. Expect most planes will have some deferred Mx so first year will be expensive especially at the rate you plan to fly.

 

Best of luck! They are awesome planes and are speed demons, especially up high. They are great for long distance and if you keep up on mx, dispatch rate is high. I'm planning on San Antonio TX to Gunnison CO next month and it is non-stop for two people and bags or one stop for a family and small bags.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[Danb]

PG I have a pristine BravoGX in my opinion there are many differing opinions regarding them,  I’m in the camp of  Don K’s statements in addition I’m also a lycoming guy which is the reason I don’t have an Acclaim.

I purchased my 2005 in 2006 first improvement was long range tanks which offer amazing versatility eg West coast to East coast with one stop. My wife and I not being big folks feel the LR tanks were not only essential but the best improvement we could have done. 

Many despise the G1000 which should be upgradable to the nxi which is state of art. 
I have WAAS, ADSB, SVT and so on.BTW I love the G1000.

Fly the plane properly and it will stay in nice condition, Temperatures are key.

I have like 1000 hours, my worse compression cylinder is 74, the versatility is great fly slow like 150 knots at 11-12 gph or jump over 12000 and achieve 200 knots on 17.5 gph not many planes have this versatility. Useful load over 1000 all we hear about is long bodies with UL under 900 I assume with TKS and AC the UL would suck and be under 900. 
All Mooney’s are great once you determine your need there will be one you’ll love.

Health issues are now my concern , mines currently not for sale but it’s a matter of time before I won’t be airworthy 

Good luck in your quest

Look at Ovations, Acclaims in additional to Bravos. Erik has a great Rocket which fits your bill as well as the Missiles out there and any other model I haven’t mentioned like the screaming eagles.

[PilotGrant]

All, thanks for all the great feedback and responses.

I have a request in for an insurance quote, assuming my current total hours and 10 additional hours in a Mooney with a CFI before purchasing. I'm planning on another 10-15 hrs in a Bravo once I purchase, but I'm hoping an initial 10 in make will help out with the first year's quote.
I also have an email out to Henry Weber Aircraft in Lancaster PA (Right next to me), as I hear that shop is well-regarded in the Mooney space. Hoping to start building relationships before buying.

@Parker_Woodruff, no plan for a twin turbine down the line. I do eventually want to get multi training, but don't see myself owning two props (Maybe two jet engines though  :))

@carusoam, Looks like adding the extended tanks to a Bravo is not a huge deal. Good to know.

@donkaye, thanks for the tips on the AC. Makes total sense. With ~950 lbs UL, I could fill up long range tanks, TKS, and still fit myself and a bag or two. My Fiancé doesn't like flying more than 4hrs at a time anyway, so taking 20 gallons of fuel out to fit her is no big deal. Getting below 900 lbs with an AC would mess all that up though, so that's coming off the list.
Not expecting a maintenance-free airplane or one without surprises, just one that passes due diligence in a PPI lead my a knowledgeable maintenance resource, or at least one that has its price updated to reflect any findings from one.
I don't mind spending the fuel to get me the speed (Assuming the engine/exhaust stay healthy), but will gladly take the fuel savings of LOP if it works out for my situation. If it doesn't, then it is what it is.
Good point on the GPSS, adding that to my list

@irishpilot thanks for the feedback. Taking AC off the list. Still want long range tanks but will need to make sure the UL makes sense when I'm serious about a specific plane. Looks like the tanks only weight 10 pounds, worth it to me if that's true.
I've seen many opinions on the power settings over the past few days. Sounds like what really matters is keeping CHT (comfortably <400) and TIT (LOP of >100 ROP, below 1650) in check. I've settled on the fact that it probably differs by plane a little, and I'll have to actually fly one to make informed decisions.
As my first potential FIKI plane, not planning on using it for anything more than climbing/descending through layers. Never planning on hanging out in icing conditions, only escape or get above them.

@Danb big fan of the G1000 non-NXi in the DA40 I fly, but I'm also a big fan of WAAS. Would gladly take a G1000 Bravo if the price was right and it had WAAS, but it seems like if it hasn't been upgraded yet, you're pretty much out of luck.
I dismissed the Ovation to to a lack of a turbo, but will give it a second look. Acclaims are a bit too expensive for me. Will keep an eye out.

EDIT: I'd prefer a long body, so Rocket and Missile may not be the best fit. Acclaims from the 2000's really are a good bit more expensive! They must be worth it if they are 2x more, but still out of my price range.

Edited January 13, 2021 by PilotGrant
Fixing @ names

[Parker_Woodruff]

11 minutes ago, PilotGrant said:

I have a request in for an insurance quote, assuming my current total hours and 10 additional hours in a Mooney with a CFI before purchasing. I'm planning on another 10-15 hrs in a Bravo once I purchase, but I'm hoping an initial 10 in make will help out with the first year's quote.

The 10 hours won't help the insurance scenario if it's not in a Bravo (or whichever model you decide to buy) - even if it was in the same model, it probably wouldn't help.  They're going to want the CFI to have appropriate experience the specific model as well.  Unless you're doing it for your own enjoyment and education, just get the transition training once you buy the plane.

[irishpilot]

@PilotGrant

sounds like you are well on your way for research. LR tanks would be nice if it fits your mission. However, standard range tanks still give you serious legs if you run 27/2200. By my calculations, full LR tanks adds another 180 lbs of fuel weight. 

For power settings, a lot of us keep under 400 CHT and 1550 TIT. Technique only. 

[PilotGrant]

8 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

The 10 hours won't help the insurance scenario if it's not in a Bravo (or whichever model you decide to buy) - even if it was in the same model, it probably wouldn't help.  They're going to want the CFI to have appropriate experience the specific model as well.  Unless you're doing it for your own enjoyment and education, just get the transition training once you buy the plane.

Great info about the 10 hours, didn't realize that. Waiting until I get a plane would be the way to go, then, if it doesn't impact insurance. Asked for a quote through AOPA just to get a quick number, but will definitely keep you in mind when the time comes for a real quote (I assume you're affiliated with airspeedinsurance)

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 hour ago, PilotGrant said:

Great info about the 10 hours, didn't realize that. Waiting until I get a plane would be the way to go, then, if it doesn't impact insurance. Asked for a quote through AOPA just to get a quick number, but will definitely keep you in mind when the time comes for a real quote (I assume you're affiliated with airspeedinsurance)

 

Sure thing. Yes, I am the CEO, chief pilot, chief organizer, IT pro, cleaning service, and most importantly: the lead robocall answerer at Airspeed Insurance. 

[PaulM]

I'm over in NJ (1N7)  and have a 2005 GX Bravo if you want to see one in action, PM me. 

[RJBrown]

I have about 1000 hours in a Rocket.

Rockets outperform on less fuel. Generally equipped the same and with similar times they cost less.

useful at 3200# gross is usually about 1000, similarly equipped Bravo has slightly less useful at a higher gross of 3368.

Has a Continental TSIO520NB with a lower TBO though than theTLS/BRAVO Lycoming and smaller back seat.

Runs well lean of peak, I’m told. My Rocket experience was pre 2003 and Gami’s were not a thing yet.

They climbs better with more HP (305) and less weight.

I prefer the Rocket but there are currently none on the market.

The cruise 73% is 200kts at 12000’ and faster higher 238kts at 24,000’

I rented a MSE for initial Mooney experience. With similar times and IFR as you I bought a stock 231 flew it for 100 hours before converting it to a Rocket.

After the Rocket I hated the MSE I bought for retirement (see my icon) Sold it, still hoping to get another Rocket. Currently getting my Mooney fix in a 201 a friend stores in my hangar.

 

[carusoam]

Grant,

As you can see...

1) The turbo allows a fair amount of additional power to be used in the FLs... hence the spectacular speeds...

2) You can get the pilot out of the Mooney, but you can never get the Mooney out of the pilot... 

3) The Bravo can be run LOP... But it is not as flexible as other engines for one technical reason...

4) For the most flexible operations LOP... it is really helpful to have equi-length intake tubes... The curvy tubes are the hint... The Bravo uses a compact design known as the log intake... it looks really neat and tidy...

5) The Bravo’s engine has a great history, probably decades without any problems...

6) I see you got an invite to visit a Bravo above...  Paul has been an MSer for many years, take him up on the offer, if able...

7) Flying a family of four around in an Ovation... I usually stopped every three hours or so... a Comfort issue...

8) Flying solo... it is easy to go from NJ to FL, non-stop... there are threads around here for best ways to handle the other liquids... 

 

Go MS!

-a-

[irishpilot]

Rockets are awesome. Finding one that has the equipment you want = unicorn plane. If you see one on the market, take a look.

There usually are always a few Bravos on the market at any given time. 

[Schllc]

22 hours ago, donkaye said:

I don't know of any Bravos that ever had AC.  I think AC was first introduced in the Ovation.  Having said that, I couldn't think of a worst waste of money (unless you lived in Arizona and idled on the ground very long in the summertime).  You can climb out of the heat in no time.  There was an Acclaim that I know of that had AC, Long Range Tanks, and TKS.  That was requested by the purchaser of the NEW airplane.  I heard the salesman was fired shortly thereafter, when after the plane was ready for delivery, the buyer forfeited his deposit and walked away because he discovered the useful load was 50 pounds at full fuel and TKS fluid.

The Bravo is a great airplane.  I've probably owned mine longer than most anyone at 28½ years. However, if you think you are going to get an airplane that's 30 years old and not have unexpected maintenance issues (sometimes large), think again.  You can go a couple of months without one and then, boom, you get hit with one.  And NEVER think to yourself or say out loud, "I haven't had any issues for the past few months".  Invariably within a day or two you will.  My plane is going in tomorrow on one of those unexpected issues, the right wing fuel senders need replacement.

Personally, while I have GAMIs, I don't like running LOP.  For unknown reasons most Bravos trying to run LOP don't do well.  The plane is a great airplane flying West to East.  Get up into the upper teens and with the usual Westerlies you will easily do over 200 knots GS, in fact usually 220-245 knots GS at 17,000 feet.  I've made it San Jose to Akron, Ohio in 10½ hours with I think 2 fuel stops, then on to Hartford the next day in a couple of hours.  Flying West is usually an exercise in staying low for lower headwinds.  But, if you have to go higher for mountains, you can do that even into massive headwinds to avoid lower level turbulence.  A couple of years ago I came back from a complete tank reseal job in Willmar, MN in 9½ hours with an overnight in Omaha due to weather, then Pueblo (3 hours) at 6,000 feet into 40 knot headwinds after a cold front, Milford (3 hours) with 60-65 knot headwinds at 16,000, and on to San Jose in 3½ hours at times at 20,000 due to weather over the Sierras.  I personally like modest 2½ to 3 hour flights for comfort.  That's going to take you over 500 nm. 

Factory Remans at TBO; $85,000 including labor.

The above airplane looks like it fits the bill for you, however, except for the GTN 650, with mostly 25 year old technology.  You WILL need one thing that in not in the description.  There is no mention of GPSS, which you just have to have, especially with the GTN 650.  Installed, it probably $2,500.  

And don't get me started on the seductiveness of the new technology.  My plane has almost every new gadget that Garmin has come out with.

The last thing I'll say that some will disagree with, is the need for long range tanks.  The closest I ever came to running out of fuel was in a Bravo with longe range tanks over New Mexico at night helping a new purchaser bring the plane back to California.  When I asked about the fuel situation where the plane was purchased I was led to believe there was plenty of fuel to make the trip to Deer Valley (you can't tell by looking at fuel levels in the the tank).  After the red light came on for the right tank (3 gallons remaining), I declared LOW FUEL, and made it directly with no delays to Williams Gateway.  When I topped the tanks there it turns out we had 11 gallons remaining, not enough to have made it to Deer Valley comfortably.  Unless you top the tanks, you don't have a good way of knowing the exact situation of how much fuel is in each tank.  There is a guide in the POH AFMS, but the fuel gauges cannot be calibrated to the full amount.

So, there is a quick synopsis of the M20M Bravo.

Ive seen two g1000 bravos with ac, came very close to buying.

it also had FIKI and the UL was 860 or so which I thought was pretty good for the equipment.  That being said I realize it had a narrow appeal, for for a solo flyer or small couple, that is a very capable and comfortable airplane.  I think the acclaim with the same equipment would be well under 800.

[PilotGrant]

Thanks for the tips on the Rockets, all. My preference is towards the long body Mooneys, but I haven't sat in one yet, so I don't want to completely take a Rocket off my list for something like that. Will definitely keep on the lookout for one and give it a look if one comes up.

Also adding a pre-Ultra Acclaim to my list just in case I can make the finances work, since they really do seem like an amazing plane, albeit 2x+ what a Bravo costs. <8hrs from LA to Philadelphia with a single fuel stop and a nice tailwind is pretty crazy.

I'll keep everyone posted on how I make out over the next few months!

[donkaye]

41 minutes ago, PilotGrant said:

Also adding a pre-Ultra Acclaim to my list just in case I can make the finances work, since they really do seem like an amazing plane, albeit 2x+ what a Bravo costs. <8hrs from LA to Philadelphia with a single fuel stop and a nice tailwind is pretty crazy.

I just checked my logbook on a ferry flight I made a couple of years ago in an Acclaim.  A little under 4 hours non stop Santa Barbara to Pueblo.  I did over 300 knots most of the way due to fantastic tailwinds..  I was headed to Dupage in Chicago and could have made it all the way there non stop from Pueblo if not for the 28 to 52 knot gusting crosswinds at DuPage.  So I stopped in Beatrice NE for the night.  KPUB to KBIE 2 hours.  The next day I made it to DuPage in a little under 2 hours; still cold and windy there.  Turns out only 1 jet made it in the previous day.  So with good winds you could make it Santa Barbara to Chicago in a little under 8 hours.  Sorry, but no way LA to Philly in 8 hours.