Opinions on annuals

[r0ckst4r]

Was looking for a few opinions on where you chose to get your annuals done.   A reputable Mooney service center is available but is a little far for me.   There is one closer but I have not had any experience there and it does not appear anyone else here has either.  The FBO at my home base has done some repairs for me which went well.   I suppose my question is do many of you get your annual done close by or do you travel out of your way to a MSC?

[carusoam]

I have done both...

Make sure your local one has really good Mooney experience to work from... including all the manuals...

The important part is the mechanic, not so much the hangar he is working in...

But, certain tools, procedures, and places to inspect, are very Mooney only....

Where is your Ovation living now?

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

It's not the people doing, it's the process.   Instead of taking it all apart taking a look and putting it back together, each year focus on a different system.   Like Landing gear, Trim, brakes, etc.    Repair and replace everything in the focus system so it is better or equal to when it came out of the factory.   Eventually you will have a new plane that is only several years old rather than 20 years old.   That said the current thing is replace all butt connectors on the Alternator.

[r0ckst4r]

Just now, carusoam said:

I have done both...

Make sure your local one has really good Mooney experience to work from... including all the manuals...

The important part is the mechanic, not so much the hangar he is working in...

But, certain tools, procedures, and places to inspect, are very Mooney only....

Where is your Ovation living now?

Best regards,

-a-

My O lives at KSMS.   I don't think there are many Mooneys here.  I had high hopes for Precision Air at KMNI and I could try it but it would be a gamble.   I'm sort of close to AGL at KMRN which is very reputable but it's much farther

[PT20J]

I agree with Anthony. In theory, a MSC should have the best trained and most knowledgeable Mooney mechanics. But there is a real shortage of GA mechanics and in reality MSCs are just another shop hiring mechanics from the available pool. The biggest problem I see is a reluctance at some shops to have a more senior mechanic check the work if the less senior. So, it can be the luck if the draw as to what mechanic actually works on your plane.

My preference is to find a good local mechanic and develop a close relationship with them so that we both understand what quality of work I expect to pay for. Without this understanding, It’s difficult for the mechanic since his last customer may be meticulous and want everything done to perfection and the next may be a CB that complains about the cost of everything.

Skip

[carusoam]

One of the cool things about AGL...

There are enough MSers going that way... you might be able to work out a trip exchange...

Every now and then we will see some threads pop up for rides to and from various MSCs...

I have had my close by MSC deliver my plane for me... easy enough my (non-flying) wife took care of the whole arrangement...

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyMitch]

As others have stated, get to know your mechanic, have the correct manuals and have the correct tools.

Study your manuals and get physically involved ( hands on) during the annual process.

Being deeply involved in the annual process as you’re following along, learning and helping, the cost of the annual may increase due to your involvement.  Those additional funds will be wisely spent as you gain invaluable knowledge of your Mooney.

The more you know about your Mooney, the better life is. 

P.S.  Don’t be reluctant to ask questions here...... one of the beautiful aspects of MS........all are here to help! 

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, r0ckst4r said:

Was looking for a few opinions on where you chose to get your annuals done.   A reputable Mooney service center is available but is a little far for me.   There is one closer but I have not had any experience there and it does not appear anyone else here has either.  The FBO at my home base has done some repairs for me which went well.   I suppose my question is do many of you get your annual done close by or do you travel out of your way to a MSC?

Do the work myself and have a local AI who owns a Mooney swing by for the inspection.  

[lets fly]

Hello I just bought a 66' M20C the annual is due in April. Does any one know someone in the Seattle (Mount Vernon) area? This is My first plane I'm not afraid to get dirty and learn about my plane.

[larrynimmo]

6 hours ago, Yetti said:

It's not the people doing, it's the process.   Instead of taking it all apart taking a look and putting it back together, each year focus on a different system.   Like Landing gear, Trim, brakes, etc.    Repair and replace everything in the focus system so it is better or equal to when it came out of the factory.   Eventually you will have a new plane that is only several years old rather than 20 years old.   That said the current thing is replace all butt connectors on the Alternator.

You’re a little late....I replaced all of mine...one at a time! (Alternator connections)

Edited January 4, 2021 by larrynimmo
Clarify

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Yetti said:

It's not the people doing, it's the process.   Instead of taking it all apart taking a look and putting it back together, each year focus on a different system.   Like Landing gear, Trim, brakes, etc.    Repair and replace everything in the focus system so it is better or equal to when it came out of the factory.   Eventually you will have a new plane that is only several years old rather than 20 years old.   That said the current thing is replace all butt connectors on the Alternator.

I’m not sure I’m following the process.  So for this years Annual, I’ll really focus on the landing gear, it will be perfect when I’m done.  How do I sign out the Annual when I didn’t look at the rest of the airplane?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

Clarence

[Hank]

17 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’m not sure I’m following the process.  So for this years Annual, I’ll really focus on the landing gear, it will be perfect when I’m done.  How do I sign out the Annual when I didn’t look at the rest of the airplane?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

Clarence

I think the intention was to inspect everything AND rebuild one system, instead of only inspecting.

[Danb]

9 hours ago, r0ckst4r said:

Was looking for a few opinions on where you chose to get your annuals done.   A reputable Mooney service center is available but is a little far for me.   There is one closer but I have not had any experience there and it does not appear anyone else here has either.  The FBO at my home base has done some repairs for me which went well.   I suppose my question is do many of you get your annual done close by or do you travel out of your way to a MSC?

I get my annual done close by at KLNS, every two- three years I go to DMAX just for another’s look. 1200 miles we turn into a vacation.

[1964-M20E]

Find a good mechanic that is close and allows owner assisted annuals that either knows Mooney specifics or is willing to learn.  Mooney maintenance and parts manuals are necessary and very helpful.  If you do not already own a set get them.  MS is a great resource to locate and find Mooney specific issues to look for during an annual or pre-buy.

1. Engine and controls - common between all aircraft and any good mechanic / IA will understand and is not an issue
2. Airframe inspection - cleaning, lubrication, looking for cracks, corrosion, control linkages, rod end wear similar on all airframes
3. Gear rigging - Mooney specific and need Mooney specific tools and manuals (gear tools)
4. Gear shock discs - Mooney specific and need Mooney specific tools and manuals (gear tools)
5. Control rigging - Mooney specific and need Mooney specific tools and manuals (travel boards).  Once verified on your first annual if nothing was changed little need to check every annual unless you notice something different when flying.

I'm sure I missed something and this is not intended to be a complete list of things done on an annual.  However, these are the big groups of activities that I see when assisting with the annual.

Get you hands dirty.

 

[MooneyMitch]

10 hours ago, lets fly said:

Hello I just bought a 66' M20C the annual is due in April. Does any one know someone in the Seattle (Mount Vernon) area? This is My first plane I'm not afraid to get dirty and learn about my plane.

I suggest Advanced Aircraft, MSC, Troutdale, OR.  Greg first class service with competitive pricing. I don’t know if owner assisted is available.

[gsxrpilot]

The OP's comment about AGL got me to thinking.

There are many different reasons that go into the selection of a shop to oversee and action the maintenance of your airplane. This is arguably the most critical/dangerous piece of equipment any of us own. And that got me thinking... along with my own reasons for choosing a particular shop, maybe I should look at that shop's clientele and their reasons for choosing said shop.

There are shops that have "Mooney experience" because they service the one or two Mooneys on the field. These shops might get all their customers from the local area. Then there are shops who have customers from all over the country. These are obviously customers who have completely left convenience out of the equation when choosing the shop. 

Would I be better off with a shop who's customer base is all local and likely chose because of convenience or a shop who's reputation is nation wide and that has customers who think nothing of flying 300, 500, 1000 nm because the service/expertise/character/etc is worth the inconvenience of the trip.

Insert disclaimer here - no shop, no person, is perfect, all make mistakes, shit happens...

For me, the difference in my sleep at night more than makes up for any inconvenience taking my Mooney to Texas for it's annuals and going right past the six shops on my local field and the countless shops I fly over between Denver and Austin. And when I pull up on the ramp and look inside the maintenance hangar, I see my Mooney isn't the even the one that traveled the furthest. The hangar is full of Mooneys from all over the country. There might be a reason for that.

So back to the OP. I'd go to AGL and rest easy.

[rcwagner]

I have had my M20J for a little over 2 years.  It had a fresh annual when I bought it from an MSC.  I have had two annuals since.

1.  MSC missed two outstanding ADs that either were not addressed, or the actions taken were not recorded in the log books

2. My first annual cost me over $3500.  It was done by Western Aviation at KSFF (Spokane).  They also did not address the same ADs.  They did however decide to make adjustments to the control surfaces, leaving the airplane in a condition to go into a steep left bank if you let go of the controls.  It flew straight and level prior to their adjustments.  Those issues have been corrected.  They also left my right main bearings loose, which were caught at the next annual.  I don't recommend Western Aviation in Spokane for any service.

3.  My most recent annual (Dec. 2020) was done by Lake Aero in Chelan, Washington.  It cost me $1050 with me assisting.  Although not an MSC, Will Mutter, the business owner, is a very detailed and practical AI/AP.  His crew found the outstanding ADs and has addressed and recorded both.  His crew also found a couple of other items to watch.  Will has been maintaining several of my aircraft in the last 8 years.  

I am convinced from my experiences that a smaller well established business with a good reputation will get you a better annual than say a large business.  It's all about the people doing the work and how and why they care about the quality of work they perform.  Small businesses have to provide good service or they aren't around very long.

[RobertGary1]

52 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Find a good mechanic that is close and allows owner assisted annuals that either knows Mooney specifics or is willing to learn.  Mooney maintenance and parts manuals are necessary and very helpful.  If you do not already own a set get them.  MS is a great resource to locate and find Mooney specific issues to look for during an annual or pre-buy.

1. Engine and controls - common between all aircraft and any good mechanic / IA will understand and is not an issue
2. Airframe inspection - cleaning, lubrication, looking for cracks, corrosion, control linkages, rod end wear similar on all airframes
3. Gear rigging - Mooney specific and need Mooney specific tools and manuals (gear tools)
4. Gear shock discs - Mooney specific and need Mooney specific tools and manuals (gear tools)
5. Control rigging - Mooney specific and need Mooney specific tools and manuals (travel boards).  Once verified on your first annual if nothing was changed little need to check every annual unless you notice something different when flying.

I'm sure I missed something and this is not intended to be a complete list of things done on an annual.  However, these are the big groups of activities that I see when assisting with the annual.

Get you hands dirty.

 

I use the top gun list. It’s several pages. 

[PT20J]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

I use the top gun list. It’s several pages. 

There's a list on mooney.com under technical publications.

[hypertech]

My original plan was to alternate a local owner assist with an MSC.  I am very happy I did the first couple (to include an unplanned overhaul) with a local IA in my hangar - I learned a lot.  I have since moved and have not found a similar IA where I can do that.  The local shops on the field don't want to do an owner assist and don't even like coming down to the hangar no matter how simple the task may be.  I also found @AGL Aviation and now go out of my way to see them.  I'm very happy with the work they've done; their prices are fair; and they don't seem to mind too much if I poke around and ask questions while the plane is opened up.

[MooneyMitch]

55 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is arguably the most critical/dangerous piece of equipment any of us own.

Uh, well, ah, hmmmmmmmmmmm..............then there's this ! [I purchased new in 1980..........can't seem to let it go ]

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

 

For me, the difference in my sleep at night more than makes up for any inconvenience taking my Mooney to Texas for it's annuals and going right past the six shops on my local field and the countless shops I fly over between Denver and Austin. And when I pull up on the ramp and look inside the maintenance hangar, I see my Mooney isn't the even the one that traveled the furthest. The hangar is full of Mooneys from all over the country. There might be a reason for that.

 

Its interesting how that works. For me I sleep well knowing two eyes were on every part of my plane at annual and one set were mine. In my decades of Mooney ownership I've used a number of the most respected MSC's. They are all fallible with issues such as forgetting to install a cotter pin on the main gear, installing the aileron bell crank without a nut on the pivot bolt, etc ,etc. I recall mentioning to one of the mechanics at a top rated MSC that I fly my family out over the Sea of Cortez in Mexico so I'm interested in the plane running well. He was shocked that people take airplanes out in IMC, over mountains, etc. That spoke volumes to me.

 

-Robert

[skykrawler]

Annuals are inspections.......maintenance may be performed because it is convenient.

If your airplane is two states away you might be 'held hostage' for unneeded repairs which could be deferred and performed locally or supervised.

The hardest thing to do on an M20J annual is to safety the oil screen

Maintain your own list of ADs.  One time and recurrent, on the airframe, engine AND accessories.  Its the only way you really know.

Remember that everything "worked on" is a potential point of a new failure or problem.

IF you take an airplane to a FAA repair station it might be a 'tougher' annual because the FAA watches them closely.  And, not sure FAA repair stations actually have to use A&Ps.  The IA sign off is against the repair station certificate.  I'm sure to be corrected here.

[StevenL757]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Would I be better off with a shop who's customer base is all local and likely chose because of convenience or a shop who's reputation is nation wide and that has customers who think nothing of flying 300, 500, 1000 nm because the service/expertise/character/etc is worth the inconvenience of the trip.

Insert disclaimer here - no shop, no person, is perfect, all make mistakes, shit happens...

For me, the difference in my sleep at night more than makes up for any inconvenience taking my Mooney to Texas for it's annuals and going right past the six shops on my local field and the countless shops I fly over between Denver and Austin. And when I pull up on the ramp and look inside the maintenance hangar, I see my Mooney isn't the even the one that traveled the furthest. The hangar is full of Mooneys from all over the country. There might be a reason for that.

So back to the OP. I'd go to AGL and rest easy.

For @r0ckst4r,

This.  In spades.  Exactly why I choose to travel from NY to TX each year...AND stay to perform 70%+ of my own annual under my IA's supervision.

Steve

[gsxrpilot]

57 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Its interesting how that works. For me I sleep well knowing two eyes were on every part of my plane at annual and one set were mine. In my decades of Mooney ownership I've used a number of the most respected MSC's. They are all fallible with issues such as forgetting to install a cotter pin on the main gear, installing the aileron bell crank without a nut on the pivot bolt, etc ,etc. I recall mentioning to one of the mechanics at a top rated MSC that I fly my family out over the Sea of Cortez in Mexico so I'm interested in the plane running well. He was shocked that people take airplanes out in IMC, over mountains, etc. That spoke volumes to me.

When I'm retired, I'll be all about the owner assisted annuals. But until then, I'll have to rely on someone else to do 90% of the maintenance for me. 

I wouldn't have that comfortable sleep easy at night feeling without a long term relationship with the shop. You're never quite sure on the first date, or even the second or third date, no matter who she is. But a long term relationship can bring that peace of mind. Finding a shop with a long and stellar reputation can help to shorten the search for the right one.