Garmin G1000 ?

[MATTS875]

Are the ovations with the g1000  without the waas upgrade ok for resell down the road? I have read that it cost a lot in order to get the upgrade. I’m sure it has been covered before but I am in the market for an Ovation and most of the ones I’m seeing have the G1000 without the upgrade

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, MATTS875 said:

Are the ovations with the g1000  without the waas upgrade ok for resell down the road? I have read that it cost a lot in order to get the upgrade. I’m sure it has been covered before but I am in the market for an Ovation and most of the ones I’m seeing have the G1000 without the upgrade

When I was shopping for an ovation, I had the thought process that I needed a G1000. The reality is that most of the more affordable GX ovations A, don't have 310hp, B, have the Stec 55x instead of the GFC700, and C, don't have Waas.

All GX models came with a top prop, so the upgrade for the power is easy, and it's give or take 8 to 10k.

WAAS is a 35 to 40K upgrade on the G1000's. @gsengle was the one who convinced me to go with a pre GX aircraft. I would recommend doing the same.

WIthout the WAAS, there is a lower purchase price, and there will be a lower selling price. I would figure they will sell just fine in the future. My opinion has always been that you can get more value out of a 99 to 02 Ovation, than you can out of a post 05 Ovation. If you like the G1000 however, go for it. There are no rational choices in general aviation, so might as well do what you want.

 

[StevenL757]

6 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

Are the ovations with the g1000  without the waas upgrade ok for resell down the road? I have read that it cost a lot in order to get the upgrade. I’m sure it has been covered before but I am in the market for an Ovation and most of the ones I’m seeing have the G1000 without the upgrade

Historically, although G1000-equipped Ovations without WAAS, SVT, and GFC700 autopilot are much cheaper to get into than those with, they’re more difficult to sell because everyone wants those features in that class of airplane.

For some reason, early G1000 airplanes without WAAS etc. are still commanding a premium despite the legacy G1000 platform aging.  Unless you find a G1000 airplane with GFC700 (preferably the GDU1044 displays - with WAAS, VNAV options) at a very attractive entry price, you’re better off building up a clean NDH and corrosion-free Ovation from the 1994-2004 era.  You’ll have an airplane with...at a minimum...equivalent or better capability and redundancy than a legacy G1000 bird.

Steve

[MATTS875]

5 hours ago, Niko182 said:

When I was shopping for an ovation, I had the thought process that I needed a G1000. The reality is that most of the more affordable GX ovations A, don't have 310hp, B, have the Stec 55x instead of the GFC700, and C, don't have Waas.

All GX models came with a top prop, so the upgrade for the power is easy, and it's give or take 8 to 10k.

WAAS is a 35 to 40K upgrade on the G1000's. @gsengle was the one who convinced me to go with a pre GX aircraft. I would recommend doing the same.

WIthout the WAAS, there is a lower purchase price, and there will be a lower selling price. I would figure they will sell just fine in the future. My opinion has always been that you can get more value out of a 99 to 02 Ovation, than you can out of a post 05 Ovation. If you like the G1000 however, go for it. There are no rational choices in general aviation, so might as well do what you want.

 

Yes. It seems like the ones that have the STEC 55 and the 530w are selling for about he same price as the g1000. Makes one wonder if you were to replace the 530w and the 430w with the gtn 750 or equivalent if you have about the same money in the panel as updating the g1000 to waas.  Might be exactly like you said , just depends on what you are wanting. I think I will shift gears and look for the ones without the g1000 unless there was a deal too good to pass up on. 

[MATTS875]

42 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Historically, although G1000-equipped Ovations without WAAS, SVT, and GFC700 autopilot are much cheaper to get into than those with, they’re more difficult to sell because everyone wants those features in that class of airplane.

For some reason, early G1000 airplanes without WAAS etc. are still commanding a premium despite the legacy G1000 platform aging.  Unless you find a G1000 airplane with GFC700 (preferably the GDU1044 displays - with WAAS, VNAV options) at a very attractive entry price, you’re better off building up a clean NDH and corrosion-free Ovation from the 1994-2004 era.  You’ll have an airplane with...at a minimum...equivalent or better capability and redundancy than a legacy G1000 bird.

Steve

Budget wise I will probably wind up hopefully finding an Ovation with at least a gtn 750 or something comparable to it. The g1000 ovations are still out of my price point. Might be best as you and others are saying to get a nice clean one without he g1000 and build it up to what I am wanting . Thanks for the advice and information. Much appreciated 

[tmo]

Isn't the catch that you can upgrade (or possibly even repair) the G1000 only with Mooney's parts / approval, and the non-G1000 ones can be upgraded piecemeal and forever? Well, as long as they get listed on the relevant STC/AML - which is both more likely and more economical than the "all eggs in one basket" G1000 solution.

[MooneyMitch]

Mooney G1000 WAAS kits ( Stec55x applicable) are available from Maxwell, $28K.

My experience with the 280 vs. 310 hp Ovation: depending on you mission profile and your location, and/or what you think you might want or need, the 280 HP Ovation is a most adequate and most capable aircraft .....the 310 HP is fun for a little extra T/O thrill, but it doesn’t feel real comfortable ripping along at full throttle/2700 RPM .  Although that’s kinda fun too, watching your airspeed indicator get right close to 200 kits!! And your fuel consumption at those settings will make your wallet feel a little uneasy! 

Again, this is based on your location and your mission, and what you might think is super cool to have......and it’s my experience and opinion as well.

Have fun with your beautiful and awesome Mooney Ovation, it’s one heck of a great airplane, either way!! 

 

[StevenL757]

54 minutes ago, tmo said:

Isn't the catch that you can upgrade (or possibly even repair) the G1000 only with Mooney's parts / approval, and the non-G1000 ones can be upgraded piecemeal and forever? Well, as long as they get listed on the relevant STC/AML - which is both more likely and more economical than the "all eggs in one basket" G1000 solution.

Generally-speaking, that is a true statement.

[carusoam]

WAAS is an icing on the cake kind of thing...

Since an ILS can get you pretty close to the ground... But, not all airports have an ILS...

Getting more WAAS approaches for every airport seems to have taken a lot longer than originally planned...
 

Compare a simple O1 solution to getting WAAS...

1) Buy used 430w from Alan... somewhere around 5amu...

2) install it where the existing BK radio is...

3) Use the already existing HSI/ILS display...

4) Then join the discussions on dive and drive, +V, and that kind of thing...

5) Check in with PMax to see what is available for upgrade parts for the G1000... there seems to be a limited supply coming in from various places...

The icing on the cake is as good as it gets...

You might find that the FIKI system is one of those extra icing things too...

If it is a work machine... all that icing has a payback...
 

If your weekend flyer hasn’t seen an approach to minimus in a long while... the pay back may be measured in decades...

 

In case I wasn’t clear enough....   I would love to have a G1000W panel... in my FIKI Acclaim of the future.... 

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyMitch]

“Mooney G1000 WAAS kits ( Stec55x applicable) are available from Maxwell, $28K“

Gary Anderson (N98GA) recently verified this with Don Maxwell.  3 kits are currently available.

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

My experience with the 280 vs. 310 hp Ovation: depending on you mission profile and your location, and/or what you think you might want or need, the 280 HP Ovation is a most adequate and most capable aircraft .....the 310 HP is fun for a little extra T/O thrill, but it doesn’t feel real comfortable ripping along at full throttle/2700 RPM .

Wanna' bet?  :-)

[MooneyMitch]

16 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Wanna' bet?  :-)

How much ??  

All seriousness aside (), it’s just my experience and comfort level and financial level...... too poor I am I guess.    All things being relative I guess.

Have fun passing other airplanes. 

Go Dodgers! 

[StevenL757]

The real payoff from the 310 upgrade is the takeoff and climb performance.  When Bob Minnis and I were discussing this upgrade back in 2014, he emphasized that the upgrade would be a dramatic increase in performance over the 280-equipped Ovations and Eagles.  He was right.  :-)

[MooneyMitch]

22 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

The real payoff from the 310 upgrade is the takeoff and climb performance.  When Bob Minnis and I were discussing this upgrade back in 2014, he emphasized that the upgrade would be a dramatic increase in performance over the 280-equipped Ovations and Eagles.  He was right.  :-)

Others [Trey Hughes, Don Maxwell] have stated in the past, the dramatic performance increase to the 310HP conversion is much more noticeable with the 240 HP/two bladed  Eagle.  Not as much with the 280HP 3 blade Ovation.

Fun to have of course on either model no doubt!!

Now, remember this too............there's always bladders vs. wet, LOP vs. ROP, turbo vs. normally aspirated, etc........... have a happy day everyone !

 

[GeeBee]

Here is my view. I actually sought out a G1000 with an STec 55X. Why? If you loose the AHARs on such an aircraft you still have an autopilot because the STec is a rate based unit that will continue to function despite loss of the AHARs and the associated attitude indicator. Cannot do that with a GFC 700 unit. so at a time of high stress and workload, with the STec equipped G1000, you still can use the autopilot. 

With the money you save, you can buy the WAAS upgrade, which is what I did.

As for WAAS that is needs based. If you want or need LPV capability and/or you need the capability to file destination and alternate based upon GPS approaches you need it. Otherwise it is optional at extra cost. If you don't need it immediately, I would wait for the NXi upgrade Mooney is talking about. That one you will have to do to protect the value of the airplane IMHO.

 

[Davidv]

2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Here is my view. I actually sought out a G1000 with an STec 55X. Why? If you loose the AHARs on such an aircraft you still have an autopilot because the STec is a rate based unit that will continue to function despite loss of the AHARs and the associated attitude indicator. Cannot do that with a GFC 700 unit. so at a time of high stress and workload, with the STec equipped G1000, you still can use the autopilot. 

With the money you save, you can buy the WAAS upgrade, which is what I did.

As for WAAS that is needs based. If you want or need LPV capability and/or you need the capability to file destination and alternate based upon GPS approaches you need it. Otherwise it is optional at extra cost. If you don't need it immediately, I would wait for the NXi upgrade Mooney is talking about. That one you will have to do to protect the value of the airplane IMHO.

 

I’d echo this comment on WAAS, while I have it and like it, people forget that there are still a ton of ILSs that aren’t  going away tomorrow.  If you absolutely have to go somewhere when the weather is bad, I’m quite certain most people can find an ILS alternate option near their destination.  
 

As for the autopilot, notwithstanding @GeeBee’s valid comments, the GFC700 upgrade will most likely be very costly (multiples of a GFC500 install) if it can be offered again.  The price isn’t a function of Mooney, but rather the Garmin hardware costs. If you think you might want the GFC, you’re probably better off just spending the money now on an aircraft that has one.

[Flyphilly]

2 hours ago, Davidv said:

I’d echo this comment on WAAS, while I have it and like it, people forget that there are still a ton of ILSs that aren’t  going away tomorrow.  If you absolutely have to go somewhere when the weather is bad, I’m quite certain most people can find an ILS alternate option near their destination.  
 

As for the autopilot, notwithstanding @GeeBee’s valid comments, the GFC700 upgrade will most likely be very costly (multiples of a GFC500 install) if it can be offered again.  The price isn’t a function of Mooney, but rather the Garmin hardware costs. If you think you might want the GFC, you’re probably better off just spending the money now on an aircraft that has one.

I agree with this assessment. I came to the same conclusions in my search. I found that most of the GX Ovations on the market either are the non-waas unit with Stec55x or have waas and GFC700 retrofit. The non-waas/stec55x are currently retailing in the low to mid 200's depending on time /HVAC/FIKI. Purchasing a plane with this setup makes sense if this capability fits your wallet or your mission and you absolutely want a G1000. Adding WAAS to this setup is doable for $28k with Maxwell as @MooneyMitch stated. However if you are hunting a GFC700 or think it is something you would want in the future, it makes sense to buy a plane that has it.  The O's that received the GFC700 retrofit typically have WAAS and have SVT which I understand is a $13K item are currently going in the high 200's. If you want those features best to budget for this because there is more value there.

Clean DX models can be had for around 200 and typically already have WAAS upgrades and other cool piecemeal bells and whistles. There is a lot of value there if you can live without the G1000.

So my perception is the best value is found at both ends of the spectrum.  But there is a lot to be said for an impeccably well maintained aircraft like 98GA... I went to Texas to see it, if you are considering it I can ask the owner if he would let me talk to you about it, it's beautiful and impeccably maintained. It was very hard to walk away from it, but I made a decision based on the analysis above. 

I state this leaving alone all considerations relating the validity of wanting any of these systems on your aircraft, as these are personal and somewhat irrational.. As @Niko182 stated, you have to do what you want. None of it is really justifiable :D

[TGreen]

Kinda wish I had the GFC700 instead of the STEC. It's just better. I don't miss WAAS. Nonprecision GPS approaches get me as close to the ground as I ever want to be in IMC.

Love my Ovation2 GX and don't care about the resale value. Gonna fly it till (maybe just before) the wings fall off.

[carusoam]

+1 for the probability of the M20R being used as A forever plane... 

-a-

[MooneyMitch]

51 minutes ago, TGreen said:

Kinda wish I had the GFC700 instead of the STEC. It's just better. I don't miss WAAS. Nonprecision GPS approaches get me as close to the ground as I ever want to be in IMC.

Love my Ovation2 GX and don't care about the resale value. Gonna fly it till (maybe just before) the wings fall off.

The really cool thing about a Mooney, the wings generally don’t fall off...... unless someone tries to blast them off with high speed projectiles or explosives !!! 

[MATTS875]

11 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

“Mooney G1000 WAAS kits ( Stec55x applicable) are available from Maxwell, $28K“

Gary Anderson (N98GA) recently verified this with Don Maxwell.  3 kits are currently available.

Good to have that information. Thank you. N98GA is a very nice ovation. 

[MATTS875]

46 minutes ago, carusoam said:

+1 for the probability of the M20R being used as A forever plane... 

-a-

That is what I’m shooting for. My forever plane. I feel the ovation will be just that

[MooneyMitch]

8 minutes ago, MATTS875 said:

That is what I’m shooting for. My forever plane. I feel the ovation will be just that

A wonderful airplane and an easy keeper. 

[Mooney217RN]

I have an Ovation 2GX with the 310HP upgrade.  It is equipped with a "legacy" G1000 non-WAAS and an S-TEC 55X auto-pilot.  I have looked at upgrading the avionics; it's cost prohibitive and not worth the money at all.  I have flown aircraft with the newest generation G1000's.  The graphics are better, which is nice.  There are a few extra features, also nice.  But overall, a G1000 is a G1000.  The S-TEC works great.  The fact that the G1000 is non-WAAS means nothing to me.  It'd be nice, but I am not in need of it.  Again, not worth the money.  The 310 upgrade is critical.  I have flown it without the upgrade and subsequent, with it.  You do NOT want to continue flying it with a 280HP engine in my scenario.  I am based at a high altitude airfield (5,900').  I also use a short field at sea level near SFO on a regular basis.  You want that extra HP on departure.  Without it you're vastly limiting the performance of the aircraft.

[MooneyMitch]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:24 PM, MATTS875 said:

Are the ovations with the g1000  without the waas upgrade ok for resell down the road? I have read that it cost a lot in order to get the upgrade. I’m sure it has been covered before but I am in the market for an Ovation and most of the ones I’m seeing have the G1000 without the upgrade

Matt.  Please call me. 805 305-1546.  Thank you.  Mitch