New Garmin GI275 think round G5's

[PTK]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

Peter the thing is it’s a good thing to have competition and choices.  I wish BK had some offerings.  I’m hopeful that Aspen and Uavionix will be successful.  A healthy market with viable competition keeps GA going and prices .... less inflated.  

I wish Avidyne and Aspen were capable of offering a full avionics suite of their own. Until they do they will remain marginalized or worse. Garmin has demonstrated they have the critical mass to do so and have marginalized the rest. 

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

They just spent a lot of time certifying a lot of other manufacturers autopilots with the 275.  

I wonder if since the design is so similar to the gad43e it was a easy blanket stc?

[McMooney]

hmm, i wonder if it'll work with the Brittain, looks to have the necessary left/right.

[pwnel]

3 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

But I don't know - I wish someone with some expert opinion on hours to install a GI275 vs hours to install a G5 vs Horus to install a G3x would speak up.

So now hardware cost for a simple dual GI275 system for AI and HSI is $6421+4689=$11110.  Before install costs.  Making up numbers out of thin air again - guessing $4k total to install?  Im gusting such a thing is $15k installed.

I asked for a labor estimate from a reputable avionics shop and it's 40 hours for a dual 275 install.   They listed the same costs you mention in your post (I won't do synth vision), but ultimately I also came to a $15k installed ballpark.  (I really thought given the form factor a 10-15hr install would have been totally reasonable).

Then I still won't have full integration with my NGT9000 for example.

With an E5 and EA100 I'm guessing (I didn't get a labor quote) that it'll end up also around $15k.  Then everything connects - Century2000, NGT9000, IFD440 (to replace 430W) and KX165.  

So after my initial excitement I've also gone back to Aspen as my preference.

Edited January 19, 2020 by pwnel

[MIm20c]

15 minutes ago, pwnel said:

With an E5 and EA100 I'm guessing (I didn't get a labor quote) that it'll end up also around $15k.  Then everything connects - Century2000, NGT9000, IFD440 (to replace 430W) and KX165.  

So after my initial excitement I've also gone back to Aspen as my preference.

Im guessing you could get the E5 installed for ~ 10-10.5. (4200+700+2300+install)

For 15 you could have (in the hopefully near future) a new E5 and TT autopilot. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by MIm20c

[pwnel]

39 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Im guessing you could get the E5 installed for ~ 10-10.5. (4200+700+2300+install)

For 15 you could have (in the hopefully near future) a new E5 and TT autopilot. 

Yes, but we're trying to compare apples to apples.  The apples being AI+HSI replacement and interface to existing legacy AP.  

The TruTrak, (apart from not believing in the Tooth Fairy or Father Christmas either) definitely isn't up to scratch in true IFR platform so can't be compared to Century2000 or KAP150 etc.

Edited January 19, 2020 by pwnel

[ArtVandelay]

3 hours ago, bradp said:

They just spent a lot of time certifying a lot of other manufacturers autopilots with the 275.  

But those are legacy autopilots, already installed.

Id be surprised if they support TT. In other words, they are willing to work with what’s already there. They don’t want to support new boxes, they want the new boxes to be made by Garmin. It’s a business decision, not an engineering decision. Support what’s there to get Garmin into your panel and hopefully get some other sales.

[tigers2007]

With an E5 and EA100 I'm guessing (I didn't get a labor quote) that it'll end up also around $15k.  Then everything connects - Century2000, NGT9000, IFD440 (to replace 430W) and KX165.  
So after my initial excitement I've also gone back to Aspen as my preference.

I received a quote for a new Aspen E5 installed including interface to my Century IIb for around $7500 IF I supply the ACU and EA100. So easily under $10k. No way I would pay another 5 AMU’s to have the privilege of owning another Garmin that had the same functionality with the ancient Century. I received a rough quote for two G5’s and a GFC500 (when the short bodies are supported) under 20 AMU’s without pitch trim.



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[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, pwnel said:

Yes, but we're trying to compare apples to apples.  The apples being AI+HSI replacement and interface to existing legacy AP.  

The TruTrak, (apart from not believing in the Tooth Fairy or Father Christmas either) definitely isn't up to scratch in true IFR platform so can't be compared to Century2000 or KAP150 etc.

I was trying to make it even. The prices 4200(e5)700(ACU)2300(ea100) and 3k for the install would get the job done IMO. A substantial savings for what you’re trying to do. 

[David_H]

Garmin appears to have released this product line to put competitors in a defensive position. The cost/value ratio for this product line doesn't really look right though.

[EricJ]

39 minutes ago, David_H said:

Garmin appears to have released this product line to put competitors in a defensive position. The cost/value ratio for this product line doesn't really look right though.

The application demographic seems to be fairly narrow, too:  people who want "glass" to go in a spot where a steam gauge was without altering the physical mount or appearance of the panel.

The corners of the displays that they cut off on these is really useful space.   e.g., the G5 displays things like groundspeed, distance to next waypoint, etc., in those corners where they're really useful, but out of the way.  On these it just seems to clutter everything up more than necessary, for the sole utility of not altering the "roundness" of the existing panel location.   It seems like a weird retro-mod niche.   It's certainly not forward-looking for panel display technology.   Have to say I don't get it, other than for that particular niche of users.

[PTK]

2 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

 

I received a quote for a new Aspen E5 installed including interface to my Century IIb for around $7500 IF I supply the ACU and EA100. So easily under $10k. No way I would pay another 5 AMU’s to have the privilege of owning another Garmin that had the same functionality with the ancient Century. I received a rough quote for two G5’s and a GFC500 (when the short bodies are supported) under 20 AMU’s without pitch trim.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What you describe is not apples to apples comparison. E5 is not two GI275’s. The E5 gives you no redundancy and Aspen does not protect your investment like Garmin does imo.

[aviatoreb]

On 1/19/2020 at 4:51 PM, EricJ said:

The application demographic seems to be fairly narrow, too:  people who want "glass" to go in a spot where a steam gauge was without altering the physical mount or appearance of the panel.

The corners of the displays that they cut off on these is really useful space.   e.g., the G5 displays things like groundspeed, distance to next waypoint, etc., in those corners where they're really useful, but out of the way.  On these it just seems to clutter everything up more than necessary, for the sole utility of not altering the "roundness" of the existing panel location.   It seems like a weird retro-mod niche.   It's certainly not forward-looking for panel display technology.   Have to say I don't get it, other than for that particular niche of users.

I agree.  Unfortunately.  I was initially very keen on GI275 but it is just not making financial sense.  AT 15k now it is oh so close to the cost of a full G3x.  How much is that installed?  20k?    By the time you get to 15k - if I become willing to spend that - then I would be thinking either to put in a G3x, or maybe two G5s and a GFC500 - more likely the later.  Anyway 15k for two round gauges no matter how capable, just doesn't seem wise when compared to the alternatives, both alternatives from Garmin, and of course Aspen, and soon uAvionics AV30.

At 8k-10k I would have closed my eyes and done it.  Its not even a matter of price is no object - I want it - and I am that strange market niche guy that I do find my old school looking panel to be lovely and I found this device very enticing.  If it had been G5 price, I would get it.  At G3x price almost - it is just not sensible.  And the aspen is cheaper - by a lot.  

So here I am - full circle and indecisive.  Still running my swiss-watch panel.  I bet I change my mind back and forth 10 times before annual - but I might not do anything at all by annual.

We will see what uAvionics comes up with - but I don't think they have a KFC200 solution in the current queue.

Edited June 26, 2020 by aviatoreb

[tigers2007]

4 hours ago, PTK said:

What you describe is not apples to apples comparison. E5 is not two GI275’s. The E5 gives you no redundancy and Aspen does not protect your investment like Garmin does imo.

Its apples to apples when comparing the functionality. Redundancy? Install a G-5 too and it's still cheaper

[201wantabe]

I have not seen too many people talking about this but I see the real value in on of these is to replace a CDI and get MFD abilities in an aircraft that may only have a GNS 4XX or GNS 5XX navigator, this gives you the ability to have panel mounted ADS-B display for traffic and weather as well as the ability to give you a better picture of the terrain around you. If your looking at putting in/replacing a GI-106 your only looking at a 500 dollar price premium and your getting a lot for it with out the need to replace your navigator.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, 201wantabe said:

I have not seen too many people talking about this but I see the real value in on of these is to replace a CDI and get MFD abilities in an aircraft that may only have a GNS 4XX or GNS 5XX navigator, this gives you the ability to have panel mounted ADS-B display for traffic and weather as well as the ability to give you a better picture of the terrain around you. If your looking at putting in/replacing a GI-106 your only looking at a 500 dollar price premium and your getting a lot for it with out the need to replace your navigator.

Agreed, but how much extra install work to connect to the gns and adsb?  Also, I wonder what -275 add ons you need to do all the mfd, traffic, etc in addition to the cdi?  Also, once configured as a cdi, can they be switched at will to other pages?

Not knocking your plan because I like it a lot, just wondering what roadblocks will be?

[201wantabe]

On 1/26/2020 at 3:10 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Agreed, but how much extra install work to connect to the gns and adsb?  Also, I wonder what -275 add ons you need to do all the mfd, traffic, etc in addition to the cdi?  Also, once configured as a cdi, can they be switched at will to other pages?

Not knocking your plan because I like it a lot, just wondering what roadblocks will be?

After reading the install manual and looking at it for my application I would have GNS 480, GTX 330ES and dual G5s, , you need what is already hooked up to your CDI, plus a CAN bus line to the G5 harness, a MAP MX line from the GNS 480 and a serial line coming from the GTX 330ES. 

The CDI can be configured for CDI when you need it or MFD when you don't need the CDI. With the CDI/MFD unit you can configure 5+ pages, moving map, cdi, terrain, nearest airport list, flight plan, with a mode S transponder you get traffic, with a ADS-B source you get TIS-B and FIS-B. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by 201wantabe

[Austintatious]

On 1/15/2020 at 5:22 AM, JimB said:

It appears to be replacing almost all the primary instruments. That's nice! 

Really?

Do your realize that to get that panel, that is over 12k not including installation.  For not much more you can have a G5 and GFC500 AP and an EDM900.  I would do the second option waaaay before doing this.

The ADI seems like a good solution for guys like me that are stuck with a KI256 and legacy AP, but will that even fit the hole the KI256 leaves without a plate?

To me it looks awful...  round gauges are OUT, big screens are IN.  Dont tell me garmin couldnt have made a single big screen will all those same functions for roughly the same price.

 

[Bob - S50]

Even if I could remove my airspeed indicator and altimeter by installing one of those I wouldn't.  I would want a backup just in case the ADI failed.

[JimB]

2 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

Really?

Do your realize that to get that panel, that is over 12k not including installation.  For not much more you can have a G5 and GFC500 AP and an EDM900.  I would do the second option waaaay before doing this.

The ADI seems like a good solution for guys like me that are stuck with a KI256 and legacy AP, but will that even fit the hole the KI256 leaves without a plate?

To me it looks awful...  round gauges are OUT, big screens are IN.  Dont tell me garmin couldnt have made a single big screen will all those same functions for roughly the same price.

 

I think you were missing my point. I like the idea of these modern displays "replacing" the old analog instruments. Why have a dual G5 installation with all of that info, 4 hour battery backups and redundancy and still have to keep a ASI and ALT? If you want to keep it, sure. But why should you have to for a certified installation? 

And for what it's worth, I just finished installing the G5s and an EDM 900. Just waiting on Garmin to get around to adding the F model to the AML for the GFC 500. I like it! 

[jetdriven]

If I was going to get a primary ADI that did not have autopilot integration, what does the Gi275 offer over the G5?  

[Ragsf15e]

9 hours ago, jetdriven said:

If I was going to get a primary ADI that did not have autopilot integration, what does the Gi275 offer over the G5?  

Syn vis, flight path marker, shorter battery life.  Maybe I missed a few more?

The options cost extra too.

[Bob - S50]

30 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Syn vis, flight path marker, shorter battery life.  Maybe I missed a few more?

The options cost extra too.

Primary airspeed, primary altitude, primary VSI.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

Primary airspeed, primary altitude, primary VSI.

Curious about that though... you can’t just replace the adi with a -275 and then remove your aspd, alt, and vsi can you?  So a 6 pack could go to a 3 pack?  Just an adi (with incorporated aspd, altitude, and vsi), a turn/bank, and an hsi?

 I guess I thought you could use the —275 to replace a dedicated aspd if it’s a dedicated aspd display.  Likewise with altitude and vsi.  Is that wrong?

[Bob - S50]

36 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Curious about that though... you can’t just replace the adi with a -275 and then remove your aspd, alt, and vsi can you?  So a 6 pack could go to a 3 pack?  Just an adi (with incorporated aspd, altitude, and vsi), a turn/bank, and an hsi?

 I guess I thought you could use the —275 to replace a dedicated aspd if it’s a dedicated aspd display.  Likewise with altitude and vsi.  Is that wrong?

I guess you are right. Only aircraft restricted to VFR can remove the airspeed and altimeter.