ADSB Futures

[Cyril Gibb]

We pop down to the US several times a year, so Jan 1 2020 is now coming off my procrastination list.  (Diane would suggest VERY LONG procrastination list to be more accurate)

The quick and relatively inexpensive wingtip solution would be to meet the US only 978 ground based mandate.  When Canada eventually does mandate ADSB, it will be the space based 1090ES solution.  To meet both, it's said that we would need antenna diversity.  The top and bottom mounted antennas are because a bottom mounted antenna was having poor performance seeing the sattelites.  At about Cdn$20K installed, that's probably sell time for me.

Right now, with a Stratux or Stratus just sitting on the glareshield (no additional antenna),  I can get US ground based ADSB easily even from Kitchener at pattern altitude.  So the question #1 would be: why could I not just mount a 1090ES antenna on the top of the fuselage?   If I can pick up  ground based ADSB from a unit inside the cockpit, why wouldn't it be even easier from an external mount top antenna?

Question #2: The US is now also testing the space based solution.  Would ADSB position from the satellites be acceptable to US ATC, or does the signal have to come through ground based installations?

[TomR]

My very non governmental expert two cents: The faa invested quite a bit in the 978 solution. I’d be curious to find out but I’d imagine that some air carriers will be utilizing the 978 portion of the system. Once they have invested millions on 978 the FAA won’t be able to suddenly mandate 1090 because the airlines lobby will be rightfully able to prevent them from doing so. I have 1090 in and out and honestly think the value provided is worth it. With that being said I’d plan on doing what you think Canada will be mandating as that’s where your based.

[Jerry 5TJ]

22 minutes ago, TomR said:

..... I’d be curious to find out but I’d imagine that some air carriers will be utilizing the 978 portion of the system......

978 UAT is not a permitted ADS-B Out solution for class A airspace.

So most airliners need compliant 1090 Mode S ES transponders.  

[jaylw314]

35 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

We pop down to the US several times a year, so Jan 1 2020 is now coming off my procrastination list.  (Diane would suggest VERY LONG procrastination list to be more accurate)

The quick and relatively inexpensive wingtip solution would be to meet the US only 978 ground based mandate.  When Canada eventually does mandate ADSB, it will be the space based 1090ES solution.  To meet both, it's said that we would need antenna diversity.  The top and bottom mounted antennas are because a bottom mounted antenna was having poor performance seeing the sattelites.  At about Cdn$20K installed, that's probably sell time for me.

Right now, with a Stratux or Stratus just sitting on the glareshield (no additional antenna),  I can get US ground based ADSB easily even from Kitchener at pattern altitude.  So the question #1 would be: why could I not just mount a 1090ES antenna on the top of the fuselage?   If I can pick up  ground based ADSB from a unit inside the cockpit, why wouldn't it be even easier from an external mount top antenna?

Question #2: The US is now also testing the space based solution.  Would ADSB position from the satellites be acceptable to US ATC, or does the signal have to come through ground based installations?

I have admit, I can't think of a specific reason you'd bother with a UAT solution if you're expecting to be require a 1090ES solution later on.  I  haven't heard of any realistic possibility that Canada will adopt the UAT solution as well, the US decisions seems kind of strangely unique there.  Why not just do a 1090ES install?  You could just keep your current antenna for now, and you wouldn't have to comply by Jan 1 to fly in the US if you avoid rule airspace.  If you wait until after Jan 1, you can still request prior approval from ATC to cross rule airspace if needed, so that delay could appease the wife (a major factor in any budgeting decisions).  When the top antenna becomes required later, that's an additional cost you'd be facing regardless, and you wouldn't have spent the additional $2000 for the skybeacon.  1090ES transponders run in the $2500-3000 range, although that requires a little more work installing.

The only real benefit for you installing the skybeacon now is that you'd get the full available ADS-B In traffic information and the convenience of flying through US rule airspace without having to request prior approval.  I guess the question is whether that's worth losing $2000 over the years until Canada requires the 1090ES

[Jerry 5TJ]

28 minutes ago, TomR said:

.... I have 1090 in and out and honestly think the value provided is worth it...,

Not sure what you mean as there are no airborne “1090 in” ADS-B services.  

(Well, if you have an active traffic system I suppose you have 1090 In.)

[Yetti]

Look at the Trig products

[Cruiser]

ADS-B OUT 

1090 and/or 978 some rules apply as stated above ^^

ADS-B IN

1090 air to air = TRAFFIC only

978 air to air traffic + weather + ADSB-R which is the previous two + repeated 1090 traffic.

So a 1090 only IN is for TRAFFIC only

a 978 IN is the only source of weather data.

a 978 will also receive other 978 TRAFFIC but NOT 1090 TRAFFIC

a 978 IN will also receive a ground station ADSB-R which provides all of the above.^^

[EricJ]

8 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Not sure what you mean as there are no airborne “1090 in” ADS-B services.  

(Well, if you have an active traffic system I suppose you have 1090 In.)

Stratux devices often have both UAT and 1090 in and can support traffic displays from either.   So from that perspective anything with a 1090 receiver can show traffic indicated there.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Diversity Transponder 

We fly in Canada frequently. Canada is transitioning to space-based ADS-B requiring aircraft to have a top-mounted Mode S transponder antenna.  

The requirement kicks in above FL180 on January 1, 2021, and above 12,500 in 2022.   

Canada Diversity Transponder Dates

[tigers2007]

How much is it to add Diversity to the NGT-9000? I’m sure@Marauder would be drooling over adding yet another antenna to his roof.




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[FloridaMan]

1090 sucks for privacy. I don’t want my competitors knowing which small towns I’m flying in and out of. 

[EricJ]

57 minutes ago, FloridaMan said:

1090 sucks for privacy. I don’t want my competitors knowing which small towns I’m flying in and out of. 

Registration with a holding company should do that.   The pilot's name doesn't go with the airplane.

[Jerry 5TJ]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:02 AM, Jerry 5TJ said:

Diversity Transponder 

We fly in Canada frequently. Canada is transitioning to space-based ADS-B requiring aircraft to have a top-mounted Mode S transponder antenna.  

The requirement kicks in above FL180 on January 1, 2021, and above 12,500 in 2022.   

Canada Diversity Transponder Dates

Update:  We removed the GTX33ES from the rack, added the second BNC connector to the existing rear rack bracket and slid in the GTX33DES.  The existing wire harness needed nothing changed.  The top antenna  was simple to add.  Perhaps the hardest part was getting the configuration loaded but screenshots of the prior settings helped greatly. 

There are diversity versions of most of the Garmin Mode S transponder models.  The only external difference is that second antenna connector.