Hydraulic Flaps Go-Around Procedure

[Shadrach]

1 minute ago, steingar said:

Perhaps something is wrong with mine.  I was at low altitude and wasn't looking at the VSI, jus the occasional glance at the airspeed to make certain I didn't slow down.  But at 500 ft/min it would have been a comfortable climb to pattern altitude.  Like I said, I never got to pattern altitude.  Maybe I'll try again to see what's going on.  but that will after its annual, it goes in at the first VFR weather I see.  

Don't shoot for typical climb speeds. See what 80 - 85Mias will yield. It'll seem slow but is still 1.5*Vso.  I think you will be surprised.

[steingar]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Don't shoot for typical climb speeds. See what 80 - 85Mias will yield. It'll seem slow but is still 1.5*Vso.  I think you will be surprised.

Can't say what I was shooting for, but 100 is my flap speed and I doubt I went much past that.  Can't remember if I sucked the flaps in or left them out.  I actually normally take off at 80 (mph) unit the gear is retracted, to keep the force on the bar low.  I am used to a kinda high deck angle on takeoff.

Edited April 23, 2019 by steingar

[Runway37]

Just curious,

What force causes the flaps to retract while on the ground?

[Andy95W]

Springs.

[0TreeLemur]

42 minutes ago, steingar said:

Can't say what I was shooting for, but 100 is my flap speed and I doubt I went much past that.  Can't remember if I sucked the flaps in or left them out.  I actually normally take off at 80 (mph) unit the gear is retracted, to keep the force on the bar low.  I am used to a kinda high deck angle on takeoff.

 In the 67C with the top of white arc at 88 KIAS (100mph) , the flaps really need to come up to climb at the desired Vy engine cooling speed.   You can slow a Mooney down somewhat without using any flaps.  Of course in the '67 with Vle = 104kt (120mph), the gear gotta come down first.   Careful withdrawal of power will get you established at about 85-90 kt on final without flaps.  You can put in all the flaps when the runway is made, but putting in enough trim for a good landing at that point is difficult. 

Getting the gear up with the J-bar above 90 KIAS is almost impossible without raising the nose for a while to slow down to about 85 KIAS.  Kind of a "Mooney Cobra Maneuver" as opposed to the "Mooney Dip".  Power and pitch.  Nose back to slow to 85 KIAS.  As J-bar goes to floor, nose starts to go down towards a more reasonable deck angle.

[Shadrach]

On 4/23/2019 at 3:39 PM, Fred₂O said:

 In the 67C with the top of white arc at 88 KIAS (100mph) , the flaps really need to come up to climb at the desired Vy engine cooling speed.   You can slow a Mooney down somewhat without using any flaps.  Of course in the '67 with Vle = 104kt (120mph), the gear gotta come down first.   Careful withdrawal of power will get you established at about 85-90 kt on final without flaps.  You can put in all the flaps when the runway is made, but putting in enough trim for a good landing at that point is difficult. 

Getting the gear up with the J-bar above 90 KIAS is almost impossible without raising the nose for a while to slow down to about 85 KIAS.  Kind of a "Mooney Cobra Maneuver" as opposed to the "Mooney Dip".  Power and pitch.  Nose back to slow to 85 KIAS.  As J-bar goes to floor, nose starts to go down towards a more reasonable deck angle.

The point of the thread is that you can go around in landing configuration. We agree it is not necessary as the plane can be cleaned up.  The reason I think the threads like this start is the idea that reconfiguring from landing configuration in climb is dangerous and or the notion that these birds won't climb in the landing configuration.  Neither of those things is actually true so I posted some numbers. Every one knows that climbing at reduced airspeed and full power is suboptimal. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Shadrach

[steingar]

34 minutes ago, Fred₂O said:

 In the 67C with the top of white arc at 88 KIAS (100mph) , the flaps really need to come up to climb at the desired Vy engine cooling speed.   You can slow a Mooney down somewhat without using any flaps.  Of course in the '67 with Vle = 104kt (120mph), the gear gotta come down first.   Careful withdrawal of power will get you established at about 85-90 kt on final without flaps.  You can put in all the flaps when the runway is made, but putting in enough trim for a good landing at that point is difficult. 

Getting my Mooney down to flap speed with the gear retracted is nearly impossible on the descent and requiring idle power in level flight.  You are correct, gear comes down first.  Even with it hanging out it takes a bit of doing to get down tot flap speeds.

34 minutes ago, Fred₂O said:

Getting the gear up with the J-bar above 90 KIAS is almost impossible without raising the nose for a while to slow down to about 85 KIAS.  Kind of a "Mooney Cobra Maneuver" as opposed to the "Mooney Dip".  Power and pitch.  Nose back to slow to 85 KIAS.  As J-bar goes to floor, nose starts to go down towards a more reasonable deck angle.

Dah for all.  A lot of folks talk about raising the gear when there's no more runway, or some such.  With the J-bar gear comes up pretty much as soon as it leaves the ground.  Last go around I did I must have been bit fast, because I couldn't get the bar down at all.  First time doing the Mooney dip, it worked too.

[Ned Gravel]

On 4/17/2019 at 1:32 PM, steingar said:

With the J-bar  go arounds get a mite busy.  I pull the plug on the flaps once climb is established and don't worry about them afterward.

I do almost the same thing.  A/C is already in the go-round configuration at the FAF.  GUMPS check (third time means that prop and mixture are full rich).  Throttle is back to allow for 90 mph and two pumps of flaps. 

When "Missed" is declared, power is added and A/C set to climb.  Gear up first and pull the nose up to 95 mph or so (still within the white arc).  Flaps up passing 500' or so. Trim down slightly to go to 120 mph.

[steingar]

Hopefully I'll start the IR one of these days, and I will have to get more conversant with going from a landing to an ascending transition, which is basically a go around.  I think the key thing will always be to keep the forces on the bar as light as I can.  That said, on takeoff the gear comes up at 80 mph.  I think IFR approaches are done at 100.  

Thing again, a quick pitch up will degrade speed enough to get the gear retracted.

[M20F]

On 4/18/2019 at 10:49 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Why land with the flaps all the way out? 

50% flaps is t/o configuration so I never use full till committed to landing.  If the runway is long I just land with 1/2 flaps really doesn’t change things.  So I would agree with your assessment ;-)