Need Hangar Build Advice

[DualRatedFlyer]

Laying out plans to build a hanger and could use some advice/lessons learned/wisdom from those that have been down this path before as I am out of my element.  I am coming up a bit short in finding current information online from others that have posed similar questions (mostly finding old forums from 2003 on random pilot boards).

I moved jobs this year and am now down in Dallas TX.  I have a home on an airpark, but no hangar, so I plan on building one.  Biggest theme here is that I am on a budget, but I really want to get it right the first time as opposed to being unhappy and spending more money later.

Here are my main questions:

 

We are limited to 3000sqft so the dimensions will probably be 50x60.  Would you recommend having the hangar 60 wide, or 60 long, and why?

What type of door would you recommend? Rolling door, bifold, single piece hydraulic?  

How wide would you recommend the door be?

What kind of cost differences should one expect between different doors?

What door manufacturer would you recommend to go with --- and to sat away from?

Lights - I know nothing about them. What kind if lights should I put in?  

Skylights - I have been told there are two types.  Those that leak and those that will leak.  I noticed how pitch black my neighbors hanger is with no skylights, and how bright my other neighbors is with skylights.  Are they worth it?

What are the other big elements that I am missing?  Any questions I should be asking?

Really hoping there is some collective wisdom on this forum that can help me with these.  

Thanks!

 

[Steve Dawson]

I've built a few industrial buildings so I can suggest something on the sky lights. I've installed windows high on the walls. They'll let light in, no leaks, less expensive than skylights so you can instal more and depending on which way your hangar faces, more windows on the east and west sides will provide natural light longer. 

It's also cheaper to build a bigger hangar first than find out later you need a bigger hangar. I'd also ask other owners about door size. Maybe you'll want a king air next or want to sell later to someone that has a larger plane.

Check out Beechtalk also. Lots of guys there have built hangars and I believe there's a few threads on it. 

[orionflt]

I was just in GA doing a prebuy, the owner of the plane was on a airpark and had built a pole barn for his hangar. the building code there would not let him put in a hangar but a big barn was fine....politics!

it was roughly 50X60 50 being wide and probably 30 ft tall with a bifold door installed on it, he said the pole barn construction was actually cheaper then a standard hanger. I personally thought it looked nicer then 95% of the hangars i have seen. he had 2 planes in there, a baron and a Mooney, also 2 cars lawn equipment. there was also a bathroom with provisioning for a shower, a couple of lofts and a ton of other things being stored. he told me what it cost but i do not remember how much it was, i do remember him saying the biggest cost of the construction was the concrete floor.

Brian

[RLCarter]

The slab can run as much as the building as can the doors. Manual doors are the cheapest and can be opened when the power is out, hydraulic doors can make a huge mess when a hydrolic line bursts. Skylight panels can leak over time but they do provide a lot of light even on a moon lit night. LED lighting and plumbing for a bathroom would be on my list as would a garage door for good cross ventilation,  if you plan on painting the floor do it ASAP. These guys generally have good prices HERE 

[mike_elliott]

Welcome to the world of engineering. Might I suggest you design the systems first then design the envelop to fit the systems? Then you can begin the "value" engineering

[Culver LFA]

Would you recommend having the hangar 60 wide, or 60 long, and why? 60' wide, wings are longer than fuselages.  You'll appreciate extra room on the sides to stay clear of the wingtips.

What type of door would you recommend? Rolling door, bifold, single piece hydraulic?  My hangar was build in '89 and has the easiest rolling doors I've ever opened. They are No/low maintenance.  I do not have a lot of experience with a bi-fold or single hydraulic doors so can't comment on the benefits.

How wide would you recommend the door be?  As wide as the hangar design will allow, if you spend time in the hangar when you are not flying you will want to open it up and let the breeze flow through. 

Lights - I know nothing about them. What kind if lights should I put in?  I have 12 Cooper high bay LED lights in a 60x60 area of my hangar, they do the job well and don't even put a ripple in my electric bill (they are on 8 hrs a day/5 days a week).

Skylights - I have been told there are two types.  Those that leak and those that will leak.  I noticed how pitch black my neighbors hanger is with no skylights, and how bright my other neighbors is with skylights.  Are they worth it?  I would put as few holes in the roof as possible, put side light panels up high in the walls or leave the LED lights on.  Water leaks do lots of damage to items inside a hangar.

What are the other big elements that I am missing?  Any questions I should be asking? I would plan for a single car garage door and/or windows on the back wall of the hangar to open so you can get some nice airflow through the building when you are hanging out in your hangar (No matter where you live, a metal box in the summer sun can get pretty hot).

 

[Hank]

Don't forget Insulation for walls and roof. Keeps it warmer in winter and cooler in summer. 

[1964-M20E]

Put insulation in when you build it otherwise you will have an easy bake oven most of the year in Dallas.

Make sure you put a good vapor barrier under the slab this is  a normal construction practice but just worth mentioning.

If you are not using HVAC in the hangar put a big vent fan high on one wall to suck out heat during the summer.

I would go with 22' eve height that way you can easily make a loft in the back and still get the Mooney under it.  Not necessary a king air.  Speaking of which make sure a King air or similar will fit that way when you eventually go to sell it you do not limit your prospective buyers.

As for amenities , full bathroom with shower, pilot lounge.

Extra garage door is great opposite the main door especially if you can drive to the back.  Open the garage door with a remote drive in the hangar load plane and preflight all before you are on the ramp.

 

 

 

 

[mooneyflyfast]

I put 4 skylight panels in my hangar.  I don't see why they would lesk. They are panels just like the other roof panels but clear fiberglass. I have noticed that they do sweat and drop a few drops of water occasionally. I have no lights in my hangar but it is plenty light enough to work with the skylights unless it is a dark cloudy day.  The rest of the roof is insulated and prevents condensation on the floor and hangar contents.  My hangar faces north. I put a car sized roll up door on the south side where the prevailing wind comes from here. It is cool even on a hot day with both doors at least partially open.  I put a Fold tite stacker door on mine.  It works fine but it does require a little effort to open and close.  You lose about 3 feet of opening on each side but you lose no headroom like you would with a bifold door,so your hangar can have several feet less in sidewall height. The main advantage is the cost which is about  $8,000 or 10,000 less than abifold or hydraulic door.   I like that you can partially open the door--don't have to open it all the way or part way and duck under like a bifold. Your first decision is the door. The building is designed around that.  If you have the time and inclination you can subcontract everything yourself. Get an engineer or architect to design your building.  Go to MetalMart and ask for a recommendation for an erector.  Make a deal for the erection and you can pay for the materials directly. I did a weld up building rather than bolt up and believe I saved som money. Your erector can recommend a foundation contractor. Be sure you get a deal for labor and materials. Otherwise you can wind up with a slab 6-7 in. thick in places.  Concrete is~$100 a yard so you want him to have an incentive to make it the correct thickness. To decide on dimensions  cut out some shapes of airplanes you might want to have in there to scale and see how they fit.

[Hank]

When insulating the ceiling, get the wires across the insulation panels to keep them from falling out. My hangar roof leaked last fall, a wet insulation panel fell out, hit my wingtip and shattered the $140 light cover . . .

[Guest]

Size will depend on your airplane plans, a large enough space may give you some rental potential.  In our 50W by 40D by 16H hangar we get my Comanche 400, my buddies Twin Comanche on the floor, and my RV4 on a lift.  We will be adding another lift for another airplane in the future.  Our door is a 42X16 Scheweiss electric bifold.  Sliding doors weren’t really an option with winter weather and the need to seal it for heating.

As others have mentioned add as much insulation as practical, you can’t add it easily later. I would guess that heat gain will be your issue, being in the south heat demands will be lower.  We heat ours through the hydronic floor with an on demand electric water heater and have added a solar air heater as well as solar hot water heater.

I’ve had sky lights in previous hangars, and opted for windows in my current hangar, they can be opened for fresh air.

Clarence

[DonMuncy]

If possible, install a "people door" in addition to the big door. At some point, you will find it convenient to go in without opening the big door, due to effort involved, or to conserve heat or cooling.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I would do 60 wide.  typically Gives you more options for a lessee and makes it easier to get the other airplane out of the hangar.

As far as hangar insurance, feel free to give me a call.  I'm in Dallas.  Which airpark are you at?

[kris_adams]

Fun spending other people's money.  In addition to the great ideas above, here's what  I  would look for:

1) by far the most important...water...and a toilet (full bathroom is awesome) for the last minute pit stops before departure or upon arrival.  After having a hangar for 5 years w/o direct water (it was at the end of the hangar row), I'm amazed at how much more usable it makes the hangar--we do a lot of hangar get together and parties so this is key

2) I have the manual stacker doors and they are ok.  They roll fairly easily but I'd much rather have power bifold doors with a remote control left in the plane and the car(s).  A friend has this and I'd definitely spring for this personally.  I would make the door as large as possible

3) 50x60 or 60x50.  No specific experience but I think I'd go with wider unless it drives up the cost of the door dramatically.

4) I have 4 panels that let light in...not really skylights (like MooneyFlyFast above)...ironically the leak that I do have has nothing to do with these panels

5) I'd put plenty of power (at least 1-220) around the walls and overhead lights as pernitted by code or the airport authority...I've heard of a lot of weird rules on this one

6) seal the concrete floor with whatever solution you choose as soon as the concrete is dry enough. 

7) flat screen tv's for sporting events, couches, satellite TV,  frigerator

Good luck!

[ArtVandelay]

Make sure it’s can withstand high winds, no point having a hangar full of nice stuff collapse when hit by a strong thunderstorm.


Tom

[DualRatedFlyer]

Some excellent info here and quite a few things I hadnt considered.  From the above I got the following

Make the front of the hanger 60 wide by 50 long.  The wide side with door will face the runway. 

Going to try to up the door size as much as physically and financially possible.  No sense in having a wide hanger with a short door.  Perhaps it will attract a beechtalk buyer one day with a big multi and lots of money when I decide to sell. We know those guys got cash

Had not considered putting in windows instead of skylights.  Really like how this would add cross ventilation as well. 

Not an RV guy, but like the idea of an RV or garage door on the rear to enhance the cross ventilation

Had never considered having a wireless remote control door clicker to keep in the Mooney.  This one is on my list now!

Im not sure what I want to do about a bathroom - the garage is right next door with a bathroom in it. Is it worth extra money?

Might look into putting in one of those "bigass fans"

People door will go into the rear

Insulation is a must. 

Dont think a loft is on my needs list anytime soon, always nice to have space for it in the future

@Culver LFA can you comment on a price range for those LEDs?  I couldnt find anything online.

@M20Doc I need to see a pic of the RV on the lift! 

 

Am i missing anything?

[exM20K]

Lots of good advice here. My $0.02:

• What kind of construction?  Frame on foundation is a lot easier to insulate and drywall than is a pole barn, but it's more expensive; we have to go 48" down for footers here.
• Definitely add a man door and RV overhead door if able.  
• If you don't expect a lot of snow/ice, then a roller door will probably be the most economical to buy and install.  I have a HydroSwing which is nice because it's a weather-tight seal.
• Our hangar can get a few inches of water during prolonged, heavy rain, so the 1st 3' of sidewall is greenboard with bagged insulation below a barrier, all sealed with shower caulk.  If water does get in, I'm replacing a 3' section of drywall and insulation, not 14.5'
• Finished walls, floor and ceiling will be much brighter than an unfinished, open ceiling/walls given the same lighting. we used 12x 8' double bulb, high-output florescent lighting.  very bright.  
• Floor finishing is very expensive.  I haven't done mine yet.s

Photos are from when we finished the interior.  It got cold too quickly to put the RV driveway in, but the door alone was sufficient to back and maneuver the RV against the wall.  i wish I knew why these come in upside down....

[Culver LFA]

@DualRatedFlyer  I’ll have to confirm but I believe this is the model we used:

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/lighting/products/highbay_lowbay_industrials/led/_891933.html

If memory serves correct I paid ~$200/ directly through my electrician’s wholesaler.

[1964-M20E]

36 minutes ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

Some excellent info here and quite a few things I hadnt considered.  From the above I got the following

Make the front of the hanger 60 wide by 50 long.  The wide side with door will face the runway. 

Going to try to up the door size as much as physically and financially possible.  No sense in having a wide hanger with a short door.  Perhaps it will attract a beechtalk buyer one day with a big multi and lots of money when I decide to sell. We know those guys got cash

Had not considered putting in windows instead of skylights.  Really like how this would add cross ventilation as well. 

Not an RV guy, but like the idea of an RV or garage door on the rear to enhance the cross ventilation

Had never considered having a wireless remote control door clicker to keep in the Mooney.  This one is on my list now!

Im not sure what I want to do about a bathroom - the garage is right next door with a bathroom in it. Is it worth extra money?

Might look into putting in one of those "bigass fans"

People door will go into the rear

Insulation is a must. 

Dont think a loft is on my needs list anytime soon, always nice to have space for it in the future

@Culver LFA can you comment on a price range for those LEDs?  I couldnt find anything online.

@M20Doc I need to see a pic of the RV on the lift! 

 

Am i missing anything?

Bathroom in your hangar definitely a plus.  However, if your house and or garage is right there then maybe not so much.  Just so long at there is one handy.

I have to walk up to the club house for bathroom but the rent is real cheap.  Trade-offs

[Paul_Havelka]

I haven’t seen it mentioned yet but I would also make sure to add gutters and an in floor drain if at all possible. For the drain, just a pipe to the exterior for if and when the floor needs a bath.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andy95W]

44 minutes ago, exM20K said:

 

 

Oh, sure, if you hang stuff from the ceiling you have plenty of space.

[carusoam]

People first...

 

Then machines...

 

 

Does the same MSer operate all three vehicles? (Extra multi-talented)  What is the work vehicle that goes with all this? B737?

 

Oops, back on topic....

I vote big bi-fold door.... electric powered, with lots of solar panels on the roof....

Though, The big roll-up door in the background really works for this bus in the background! 

I also really like the hangar home that one MSer had his Mooney in.... (that may have been TX as well)

Somebody did post their business of hangars around here somewhat recently... some interesting ideas were also included....

Take good notes on all the different hangars you see... no two will be alike.  It is going to cost a huge amount,  so get everything included from the beginning....

 

post some progress pics and layouts when able.  Have no fear... somebody will add some good ideas.  Somebody else will make an off color remark, accidentally... it will be a growing experience the whole way!

Where is @WorldWiseTrade?

Hmmmm..... wide screen TV, surround sound stereo, a couple of comfy couches, a refrigerator,   A wall of Mooney tools.... 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[exM20K]

Thanks, @carusoam.  Yes, that's my home hangar. Hangar is sporting a couple bikes this time of year, too.... People pic is my next door neighbor and my son, who helped maneuver the RV in w/o damaging anything. With the roll-up door and driveway, it's a single-person job now.

One more note: if the OP knows what's going in the hangar, work with some graph paper and overhead view cutouts to scale.  One of the many great things about the mooney in a rectangular hangar is that: because of the shape of the horizontal stab, you can cock the whole plane sideways by 15-25* and gain at least 2' of front-to-back room.  

-de

[Guest]

2 hours ago, DualRatedFlyer said:

Some excellent info here and quite a few things I hadnt considered.  From the above I got the following

Make the front of the hanger 60 wide by 50 long.  The wide side with door will face the runway. 

Going to try to up the door size as much as physically and financially possible.  No sense in having a wide hanger with a short door.  Perhaps it will attract a beechtalk buyer one day with a big multi and lots of money when I decide to sell. We know those guys got cash

Had not considered putting in windows instead of skylights.  Really like how this would add cross ventilation as well. 

Not an RV guy, but like the idea of an RV or garage door on the rear to enhance the cross ventilation

Had never considered having a wireless remote control door clicker to keep in the Mooney.  This one is on my list now!

Im not sure what I want to do about a bathroom - the garage is right next door with a bathroom in it. Is it worth extra money?

Might look into putting in one of those "bigass fans"

People door will go into the rear

Insulation is a must. 

Dont think a loft is on my needs list anytime soon, always nice to have space for it in the future

@Culver LFA can you comment on a price range for those LEDs?  I couldnt find anything online.

@M20Doc I need to see a pic of the RV on the lift! 

 

Am i missing anything?

The lift is a 2 post car lift which I modified to support the RV4.  

Clarence

[carusoam]

In Canada.... heated floors are used... lots of piping in the floor before pouring the cement....

In TX.... that probably translates to the same plumbing, but a good Swamp cooler mounted on the roof....

Best regards,

-a-