New panel ideas (1980 M20K)

[airbuspilot2436]

I'd like to get a new panel installed on my M20K here in Switzerland. Right now it has two 430W's, a EDM700, GMX200, and Sandel EHSI. I'd like to install a G5, an EDM930 (instead of the 700) and a GTN750. 

 

Has anybody done this? Or has better ideas to clean up the panel? Pictures of the panel are below.

[gsxrpilot]

I had a similar panel, just absolutely every square millimeter of space taken by something. Here was my way to loose the clutter and also loose some weight at the same time.

[airbuspilot2436]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I had a similar panel, just absolutely every square millimeter of space taken by something. Here was my way to loose the clutter and also loose some weight at the same time.

Beautiful! How much weight did you lose? And how long did it take in the shop?

[MIm20c]

I’d personally go with a Aspen PFD, IDF 440, and JPI 900 if I had your panel. Otherwise a full panel makeover and a 10in TXi / gtn750 would go in. 

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, airbuspilot2436 said:

Beautiful! How much weight did you lose? And how long did it take in the shop?

Thanks! I dropped just over 25 lbs. It's hard to say how long it took, as we pulled the plane out in the middle of the job to fix a corrosion issue in one of the fuel tanks. I also had all the components purchased and in my possession before it went into the shop. I was without my airplane for seven months. But the huge majority of that was the corrosion issue.

[m20kmooney]

6 hours ago, airbuspilot2436 said:

I'd like to get a new panel installed on my M20K here in Switzerland. Right now it has two 430W's, a EDM700, GMX200, and Sandel EHSI. I'd like to install a G5, an EDM930 (instead of the 700) and a GTN750. 

 

Has anybody done this? Or has better ideas to clean up the panel? Pictures of the panel are below.

If you're not in a hurry you may want to wait till Oshkosh later this year. Garmin will most likely announce the certified G3X touch which would blow Aspen out of the water!

Edited March 8, 2019 by m20kmooney

[ziggysanchez]

Did mine in 2017. Took 4 months. Lost 29lbs. Before and after pictures below. 

[Bryan]

The "certified" G3X is the Garmin TXi.   Garmin most likely will never offer a certified G3X.  I don't mind coming back to this thread after S-n-F or OSH this year or next to prove it.

 

 

@airbuspilot2436.  I had a planel like yours in my 231 with dual 430s and jumped up to a GTN 750 + GTX 345 - that was enough for me for a long time.  My suggestion is map our your budget all the way to unlimited and start with a much as you can afford.  The more you can do at once, the (marginal) cheaper it will be by going into surgery more than once.

Here is what I would do (in order) in your panel:

1) it looks like you have an EDM 700 or 800 today.  For probably around 1AMU you can upgrade it to a full-color EDM 830, reuse most of your probes and add the onese you are missing.  Contact @Aerodon and he can help you get started.  I did this on my current 252 a year ago. Much easier to see the values without all the scrolling.  Also as part of this, remove the ADF.  If you can afford the EDM 900, it is probably $8000 installed and will replace all your engine insturments.

2) I would go with a IFD440 as a slide-in replacement for one (or both) of your 430s... or just leave them in.  If you have more budget, the GTN 750 is amazing.  I won't own another plane without it.  Every 6 months that come out with a new feature that is normally a big step forward.  The downside it is larger (panel space) and expensive vs some of the other options but for me it is worth it.  You can remote your transponder and audio panel to save space.

3) After you decide to either keep your 430s or upgrade to an IFD or GTN, then do a dual Aspen MAX or TXi and get ride of all the steam gauges.  This is the step I am on now in my 252.

4) Autopilot.  It appears you might have a KFC 200.  What you choose here will afect #2 or #3... or vice versa.  Ripping out the old and installing a new is going to be expensive.  Myself am still on a KFC 150 but it is working very well and I also have altitude preselect with a yaw dampener.

Again my thoughts for what it is worth.  Don't wait "wishing" for something to happen.  Decide you want it (or need it) and take the plunge.  There will always be something new come out in the future. Those who wait are probably still waiting and will be.

[LANCECASPER]

31 minutes ago, m20kmooney said:

If you're not in a hurry you may want to wait till Oshkosh later this year. Garmin will most likely announce the certified G3X touch which would blow Aspen out of the water!

  "There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it."  William James (1842-1910)

[m20kmooney]

1 hour ago, Bryan said:

The "certified" G3X is the Garmin TXi.

 No it’s not. The TXi is TSO’d and it was developed prior to the lower cost STC approach. A certified G3X touch is a no brainer. 

[Oldguy]

A few thoughts on your panel:

1. If you go with the Aspen EFD Pro 1000 MAX screen, you will still need something like the G5 to give you the dual altimeters you require. The Aspen 2000 MAX would remove the G5 requirement and provide failover capabilities and still provide two separate altimeters.
2. Unless you really want the two GPS screens in addition to the GMX 200 and the dual Aspen screens, I would replace both of the 430s with one IFD 540 or 550. Since it appears you have a WX 500, you could get lightning shown on the IFD and the Aspens in addition to the GMX 200 (or a combination of any of them as you preferred). Add in a NavCom of your choice for your second radio.
3. All of your navigation equipment (ADF, GPS, NAV) can be displayed on the Aspen screen(s). This allows the removal of the RMI and CDI from your panel.
4. With the Aspens and the KFC 200, you have the option of adding the Avionik Straubing altitude preselect to the Aspens for additional functionality, if you like.
5. By installing the dual Aspens, you free up 50% of your panel space taken up by instruments (RMI, VSI, ALT x 2, and CDI). This should leave adequate space for the JPI EDM 900 or even the EDM 930. This would take the place of the EDM 700.
6. If you really want to do it up large, and do not already have ADS-B Out, install the L-3 Lynx NGT-9000R (remote) transponder - freeing up more panel space - and manage it with the IFD 540. (This functionality is supposed to be in the next release of software for the IFD.) This would give you traffic and weather, assuming those products are available in EU airspace. Again, this information could be displayed on multiple screens, depending on your preference.

There is a good market for used GNS 430s, so you should be able to recoup a good amount of money by selling them. Additionally, there are often specials backed by Avidyne for exchanging a Garmin GPS for one of theirs. The other instruments (and anything else you remove during the panel work) should have some residual value and help lessen your cost some.

Good luck, and we are looking forward to seeing whatever you decide to do with your panel. Keep us updated on your progress.

[gsxrpilot]

BTW I have ADS-B in/out via an Avidyne unit in the tail. The IFD540 is the head unit for the Transponder, Traffic, Weather, AND SiriusXM radio. Remote units keep the panel clean and uncluttered. Also weight in the tail is preferable to weight on the nose.

[LANCECASPER]

37 minutes ago, m20kmooney said:

A certified G3X touch is a no brainer. 

To respond to that would be a cheap shot . .  not gonna do it . . lol.

[m20kmooney]

15 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

To respond to that would be a cheap shot . .  not gonna do it . . lol.

In the hierarchy of disagreement chart ad hominem is down at the bottom of the list. At the very bottom in fact right next to name calling. It’s a strategy used by someone who is incapable of a genuine discussion on the topic at hand, and instead attacks the character of the person making the argument. 

[LANCECASPER]

You're right, how rude of me not to say what I was thinking.

[Bob_Belville]

Here's my before and after. '66 M20E. (There's a GDL 88 in the tail cone for ADS-B I/O.)  Avionics shop (Twin Lakes in Advance NC) took 10 weeks in 2012.

[m20kmooney]

23 hours ago, airbuspilot2436 said:

I'd like to get a new panel installed on my M20K here in Switzerland.

I’d wait the few months for Oshkosh and decide then. Recognize that there has been a shift from TSO to STC. Garmin will most likely jump on the bandwagon by certifying ths G3X touch. This would be huge! You’d be able to get Garmin equipment for less money than what txi costs. Assuming of course you want the best equipment your money can buy. There will always be a market for txi in higher value airframes but a lower cost Garmin option is desperately needed, and it’s coming! Also something not talked about much is the fact that it’s most desirable to stick to one manufacturer and not mix and match. This way you avoid incompatibilities and everything works as it should. Garmin is the only manufacturer with this capability. 

[ArtVandelay]

I’d wait the few months for Oshkosh and decide then. Recognize that there has been a shift from TSO to STC. Garmin will most likely jump on the bandwagon by certifying ths G3X touch. This would be huge! You’d be able to get Garmin equipment for less money than what txi costs.

You keep repeating this in hopes I guess that it will come true.
That’s not likely, otherwise they would have already done it.


Tom

[David_H]

Wrong post...

Edited March 9, 2019 by David_H
Wrong post...

[Bryan]

I can’t see a financial reason for Garmin to do this. Their TXi is selling well. Their low cost offering is also doing well: G5s

Dynon seems to have abandoned or severely delayed their offering for M20s.

Aspen is their biggest competition it seems.

[m20kmooney]

On 3/9/2019 at 11:38 AM, Bryan said:

I can’t see a financial reason for Garmin to do this. Their TXi is selling well. Their low cost offering is also doing well: G5s

Dynon seems to have abandoned or severely delayed their offering for M20s.

Aspen is their biggest competition it seems.

We see things differently. Aspen is small potatoes. No real competition for Garmin. Actually I don’t think Garmin has any serious competition. A G5 is not a pfd/mfd. A G3X touch will be a welcome addition to the Garmin line. G5<G3X touch<TXi.

Edited March 12, 2019 by m20kmooney

[Marauder]

We see things differently. Aspen is small potatoes. No real competition for Garmin. Actually I don’t think Garmin has any serious competition. A G5 is not a pfd/mfd. A G3X touch will be a welcome addition to the Garmin line. G5

I’m so happy to see Peter Garmin is back! We missed you bro! I guess you got tired of waiting outside of the BK warehouse.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Andy95W]

It took me a while, but I get the "J to K" trade now from the other thread!  

[John Car]

On 3/9/2019 at 7:56 AM, m20kmooney said:

I’d wait the few months for Oshkosh and decide then. Recognize that there has been a shift from TSO to STC. Garmin will most likely jump on the bandwagon by certifying ths G3X touch. This would be huge! You’d be able to get Garmin equipment for less money than what txi costs. Assuming of course you want the best equipment your money can buy. There will always be a market for txi in higher value airframes but a lower cost Garmin option is desperately needed, and it’s coming! Also something not talked about much is the fact that it’s most desirable to stick to one manufacturer and not mix and match. This way you avoid incompatibilities and everything works as it should. Garmin is the only manufacturer with this capability. 

http://dynonavionics.com/skyview-system.php  

I think it would be easier to get a 337 approval for the HDX than wait for Garmin. 

[m20kmooney]

26 minutes ago, John Car said:

http://dynonavionics.com/skyview-system.php  

I think it would be easier to get a 337 approval for the HDX than wait for Garmin. 

I don’t think so! With Dynon you have to use all of their components. And in doing so you'd be close to txi dollars. It may make sense for planes with simple panels that don’t have an autopilot for example. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by m20kmooney