Best Cheap ADSB Solution

[Ned Gravel]

32 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Pull a breaker?

Not certain that was not tried. 

[Marauder]

Pull a breaker?

Now that was a simple solution!


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[RobertGary1]

8 hours ago, Ned Gravel said:

Anyone know whether the Trig or the GDL 82 (when slaved to the onboard transponder) can have their ADS-B out signals turned off when needed?  

I think you just leave it on.

”Ensure lights are on within 30 miles of OSH. All non-ADS-B equipped aircraft set transponder to Standby at or before Ripon”

-Robert

[cliffy]

Legally speaking once you install an ADSB system it is legally required to have it on from start to stop of the engine The OSH issue may require an  official FAA waiver

 

 

[ragedracer1977]

28 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Legally speaking once you install an ADSB system it is legally required to have it on from start to stop of the engine The OSH issue may require an  official FAA waiver

 

 

My avionics don't come on until 30 seconds to a minute after engine start.  Is my install not legal?

 

[cliffy]

As long as it's on when you start to taxi you're ok It can't be shut off  after that until stopped in parking I'm just passing the letter of the law What others may try is up to them If you go 1200 with it you won't get any services from AT C 

[Gilt]

Any updates on the tailbeacon ?

[Yetti]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:07 PM, Ned Gravel said:

Anyone know whether the Trig or the GDL 82 (when slaved to the onboard transponder) can have their ADS-B out signals turned off when needed?  Mooney Caravan had more than one ADS-B out unable to turn their signal off and it caused ATC some consternation.  Formation procedures really only want two transponders (and associated ADS-B out transmitters) working - the one in the lead aircraft and the one in the tail aircraft.

 

 

The Trig TT22 has an OFF position switch.   The Trig T22 has a transponder and ADSB-out (when hooked to a GPS source and configured) so not sure what you mean about "slaved to a transponder".  It also requires an airspeed switch to auto switch to ground when airspeed drops below 30 knots.   This then puts out the ADSB Ground information.

[RLCarter]

Not sure why they didn’t do the right side light at the same time and offer a package, it’s not like someone would run an LED and strobe on only one side

[Ned Gravel]

58 minutes ago, Yetti said:

The Trig TT22 has an OFF position switch.   The Trig T22 has a transponder and ADSB-out (when hooked to a GPS source and configured) so not sure what you mean about "slaved to a transponder".  It also requires an airspeed switch to auto switch to ground when airspeed drops below 30 knots.   This then puts out the ADSB Ground information.

"Slaved to the transponder" is the GDL 82 solution.  Different from the Trig solution.  GDL 82 box placed in line between the current transponder and its antenna.  GDL 82 can also be attached to another independent GPS antenna and provide its own GPS source.  Ability of this solution to transmit ADS-B out ceases if the transponder is turned off.  That prevents every aircraft in the formation squawking when only Lead and Tail are supposed to squawk. 

This OK?

As an aside, based on comments about the Trig unit, the GDL 82 solution is looking much simpler.

[jaylw314]

3 minutes ago, Ned Gravel said:

"Slaved to the transponder" is the GDL 82 solution.  Different from the Trig solution.  GDL 82 box place in line between the current transponder and its antenna.  Can be attached to another independent GPS antenna and provide its own GPS source.  Ability of this solution to transmit ADS-B out ceases if the transponder is turned off.  That prevents every aircraft in the formation squawking when only Lead and Tail are supposed to squawk. 

This OK?

I think I read somewhere that an ADS-B out without the Mode A signal will still show up in the appropriate place on ATC's scope.  On the other hand, I don't know if the GDL 82 would throw a temper tantrum if it couldn't find a Mode A/C signal from your transponder and just not transmit anything.

[bob865]

8 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Agreed. Their website says they are working on that.  

My partner on the plane is at OSH now and is buying us one.  When he asked about it they offered the other wingtip.  Apparently it is available now for $400.  They also offered ADS-B in option also for $700.

[Ned Gravel]

Just now, jaylw314 said:

I think I read somewhere that an ADS-B out without the Mode A signal will still show up in the appropriate place on ATC's scope.  On the other hand, I don't know if the GDL 82 would throw a temper tantrum if it couldn't find a Mode A/C signal from your transponder and just not transmit anything.

Not fussed if it tries to throw a tantrum.  The TX is off for operational reasons and the power to the GDL 82 should be off as well.

[cliffy]

I'm in OSH they sat 2 to 3 months on the.  right side and a combo discount if you have the letter side  Getting both approved at the same time was too big a job for a small company Just the left side had 5 TSOs to coply with and prove compliance

[Culver LFA]

6 hours ago, Gilt said:

Any updates on the tailbeacon ?

I think the tailbeacon is what I'm interested in as well, I think I read somewhere that it is expected to be approved in the Fall 2018

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Ned Gravel said:

As an aside, based on comments about the Trig unit, the GDL 82 solution is looking much simpler.

So for the same price of the Trig you only get half the ADSB Out part of the solution.   While "much simpler" the TCO is higher because you have two transmitters to support going forward. But you get the GPS position source  but I think you would need another antenna.  For those of us that had a failing transponder, it made the decision easier.  The Trig is also good for 978 and 1090.

[Jeev]

On 7/21/2018 at 7:38 AM, Hank said:

But it won't fit inside my recessed, covered wingtips . . . .

When I spoke to them a few months ago they were working on an ADSB out only tail strobe. 

[bob865]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:27 PM, Yetti said:

So for the same price of the Trig you only get half the ADSB Out part of the solution.   While "much simpler" the TCO is higher because you have two transmitters to support going forward. But you get the GPS position source  but I think you would need another antenna.  For those of us that had a failing transponder, it made the decision easier.  The Trig is also good for 978 and 1090.

When you talk TCO, I think you're looking at it all wrong.  But, of course, it's all situational.  In my case, I don't have a WAAS GPS position source so I had to pick something.  It was a dash mounted transponder with a GPS source, or bite the bullet and get a GPS.  Either way, expensive.  And the dash mounted units were at least $1000 more than the skybeacon, not to mention install which isn't going to be cheap.  You're right about needing a 'working' mode C.  But you need that with the GDL-82 also, the next cheapest option.  And if you think about it, the market is about to get flooded with mode C transponders that are effectively worthless(read cheap), except to those like me.  Add to that, my transponder is a common older one that many companies make slide in replacements for (I found at least 2 different slide in replacements and an adapter to make a 3rd a slide in replacement).

So for the purchase of the skybeacon, I get everything necessary to be ADS-b complient, no need for 1090ES since I can't/don't get that high anyway.  Plus I get at least one LED light/strobe.  If I get createing, I could say I got ads-b complience for 1400 instead of 1800 becuase the light would cost approx. $400 anyway and I wanted LEDs already OR I could say my LED upgrade project cost half becuase now I only need to do one wingtip.  Add to that, virtually no install cost (I'm planning on doing the work with my IA supervising) and I get to remove the strobe power supplies.  Not a ton of weight, but still useful load I didn't have before.  And going back to TCO, yes I have two pieces of equipment to maintain, but both are easily/cheaply maintained vs the high install cost AND more expensive unit at initial purchase.

[Yetti]

I agree with the way you look at it.  Not sure there is a right answer.  If you throw a little sunk cost in there, you are probably coming out ahead.   The FAA is the Maddening part of the equation.   I can by a WAAS compliant GPS chip for $11.00.  And there are two WAAS standards.  One that is ADSB Compliant and one that is IFR approach compliant.   Since we are being required to do this you would think that ATC is also being required to do this, so that would make putting a code into the Transponder obsolete, but I can't find anyone who knows when transponder codes are going away.    

The TCO is going to go down alot with the integrated systems.   On top of the ADSB/Transponder.   There is only a $2600.00 screen/CPU and and then cost begin to go down for Autopilot ($2000) and Engine Monitor.  ($1000.00) then a new 6 pack ($400)   ADSB compliant GPS Source ($600).   So pretty much for the price of a 15 year old Garmin 530W ($8500.00)   I should be advancing my position.

But I will still have incandescent position lights. sad face.  And like everyone else with $30,000.00 glass panels will still use the $150 tablet with $100/year software to navigate.....

 

 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

But I will still have incandescent position lights. sad face.  And like everyone else with $30,000.00 glass panels will still use the $150 tablet with $100/year software to navigate.....

I have a panel-mounted WAAS GPS that I use to navigate and communicate. I'm starting to use my $150 tablet to replace plates and sectionals, but the software is free . . . . Avare! Sorry, apple fans, not available on ios the last time i looked.

What I would like is a reasonably-priced ADSB unit that doesn't require another antenna or miles of cable, and doesn't require a y additional panel space, cause mine is full already with other (mostly required) stuff.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Hank

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

But I will still have incandescent position lights. sad face.  And like everyone else with $30,000.00 glass panels will still use the $150 tablet with $100/year software to navigate.....

 

 

You calling me Mooney trash? $30,000 glass panels. I only wish...

 

[ShuRugal]

On 7/21/2018 at 9:16 PM, MBDiagMan said:

If $1,300 can’t be tolerated in the aviation budget, that person probably should have gotten out earlier

I feel like this attitude is part of why everything is so goddamn expensive in aviation.  Sure, it starts somewhere reasonable like "if you can't spare $1300 for a one time expense, this isn't the hobby for you." but it takes half of no time at all for that to turn into "if you can't afford a brand new $15,000 WASS GPS NAVCOM and another $15,000 to install it in your $30,000 airplane, this hobby ain't for you".

 

This is how we end up with Skyhawks that cost $500,000 brand new, and a public perception as a millionaires-only club.

[Yetti]

14 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You calling me Mooney trash? $30,000 glass panels. I only wish...

 

Since you are probably using the $600.00 ipad with the FF.....  I question the CB status...    What are you up to 4 subscriptions?  If the shoe fits :-)

[MBDiagMan]

Sorry SHU, But I am not responsible for expensive aviation, but I am a realist.  $1,300 is a pot full of money, but unfortunately if you are going to fly, expenses of that amount and even higher are going to pop up as part of the picture.  If your budget is that tight you probably would serve you and your family well by finding another hobby.  Do I like it?  Nope, but it is what is and I am not the one that made it that way.

[Hank]

14 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

I feel like this attitude is part of why everything is so goddamn expensive in aviation.  Sure, it starts somewhere reasonable like "if you can't spare $1300 for a one time expense, this isn't the hobby for you." but it takes half of no time at all for that to turn into "if you can't afford a brand new $15,000 WASS GPS NAVCOM and another $15,000 to install it in your $30,000 airplane, this hobby ain't for you".

 

This is how we end up with Skyhawks that cost $500,000 brand new, and a public perception as a millionaires-only club.

That's how I ended up with $132 for screws to hold my storm window on. They didn't fit, as apparently I have aftermarket windows (so they're refunding it). Ended up using a homemade 2-piece #8-32 screw since no one I could find had one for sale to go through my stock 3/16" window (one screw on each end of each hinge; one fell out when I closed the window to takeoff).

It's functional, but still needs a little clean up work when we get home.