Sandman993 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 Just now, gsxrpilot said: I can't help but think of the resale potential. The TT might make sense in a C but not in a J. If you fast forward 5 years (or how ever many years it is before the TT is certified in the Mooneys), I'd expect the difference in value between two otherwise identical J's, one with the GFC500 and one with the TT, to me more than the difference in cost between the two autopilots. I'm no Garmin fan and that has been well documented. But installing a TT in a J over a GFC500, will cost you much more than the difference in price between the two, when you go to sell. You make an excellent point...radios are a peculiar component. One thing for sure, you won’t get anything close to what you have tied up in your panel at sale. for me, it’s just flying my ship around until I get tired of doing it or they take my keys away. So, if the ffa will get off their asses, I could have what they promised several years ago... a safer airplane. And for the same amount the experimental fleet pays. 1 Quote
ZuluZulu Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 6 hours ago, nosky2high said: Not the end of the list. STEC autopilots are available as well. Previous generation only, though. The 3100 is not certified for any Mooney, and with no current plans to do so. 1 Quote
MBDiagMan Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: That’s funny! I’m not sure what part of the ether you’ll pulled those numbers from but a GFC 2 servo installation goes around for $15K, with the G5 AI. Trutrak hardware and STC runs $5000, soooo assuming $100/hour labor rate, that’s 20 hours of labor. I know TT doesn’t require any panel cutting because they fit in a standard 3” hole, but I cannot imagine someone be able to: Pull instrument panel, install TT and making GPS connections, pull inspection panels and interior pieces necessary to run servo wires and install the servos and perform required tests in 20 hours. And with the GFC you can get auto trim and yaw damper, electronic AI so it’s not an apples to apples comparison. I’d bet the final TT cost will be close to $10K, so for the extra $5K you get the G5. Whatever you say, but those aren’t the numbers I got from my avionics shop. A poster here went through his own Garmin AP costs and it cost more than he was originally told, but hey, you’re obviously the expert. I can say for Garmin though, at least they make good on their claims and make it available instead of telling ferry tales year on end. Quote
vorlon1 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 On 3/15/2021 at 10:36 AM, drapo said: Ok guys, let's put that all into perspective... BK's Aerocruze100 aka Trutrak Vizion, has been certified, installed and flying in thousands of Cessna's and Piper's for almost four years now. Irrelevant. We can't install it in our Mooneys. Like others have said, I doubt you can anytime soon either. Want something now, or in the near future? Look elsewhere. WRT requisites (Ex.: G5 for G500), they are just a part of life. Nothing new. This same approach is used everywhere. Wanna get a Spectrum phone? Gotta have Spectrum internet. And Prepay. You see this all the time in automobiles. Want convenience feature {X}? Gotta purchase the leather package(!) Sometimes features or technology take a building-block approach: Wanna run Foreflight? Gotta get an Apple; won't work on an Android. It is a required building block. It's the underlying (required) supporting technology in the G5 that the Garmin AP uses. Can't get the icing without buying the cake... I'm glad that I could purchase the G5 as a replacement to the old DG that was precessing beyond reason. I was able to later replace the AI with a another G5 while adding fail over (and more) and subtracting the vacuum system while driving my existing STEC autopilot. Remember, you still have the option to build as you go. What seems to me is often lost in the rush to point out that a G5 is required; the additional functionality you have gained for your money. It's not like an STC 'fee' that gets you nothing more than a cover charge at a bar! 1 Quote
Hector Posted March 15, 2021 Report Posted March 15, 2021 I guess you get what you pay for. It lacks a trim servo, lacks the option for yaw damper servo, follows track instead of heading, can't be used for instrument approaches, requires resetting the Baro at every baro change, and is generally too complicated to operate. I've watched this pilot's review of the Dynon, and thought it, too, if compared to the Garmin G500TXi, was too complicated for general use.I don’t know. I helped install a TT on a piper and the installation was pretty darn simple and straight forward. Around 35 hours but I’m sure after you do it a few times you could get it down to 25 or so. Then I had the chance to fly behind it and I found it to be intuitive and simple.....and quite capable. Yes it is not certified below 700 but it flew the GPS approach hands free to the runway numbers with a stiff crosswind. That being said, there is a place for the TT I think. I would not choose to install it in anything more than a J model. But for a replacement for the older models it is quite reasonable since you are not likely to get back what you pay for a GFC500 on an E or even an F when you sell. BTW not having the trim servo on the piper was a non-issue, and I suspect it will be the same for any plane that didn’t come with a trim motor like most older Mooney’s, and ATC did not complain at all when I entered a course vice a heading in the TT. The TT was even very handy for an ILS approach as entering the final approach course as you centered the localizer made it an exercise in maintaining glide slope while letting TT fly the localizer final approach course regardless of cross wind conditions. All in all not a bad little AP for the money for older Mooney’s......if it ever comes to fruition. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 +1 for having options! It sounds like shortages of computer chips that are in everything are going to be a problem for a while... Don’t accidentally buy a train car full of chips... that is only available to you... Global shortages make wacky investor scams... Fuzzy memories from the early 90s regarding shortages of fertilizer... You would think somebody would have this figured out by now... Did somebody mention a 600hp outboard engine? https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/verado/verado-600hp/ Best regards, -a- Quote
Sandman993 Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 7 hours ago, carusoam said: +1 for having options! It sounds like shortages of computer chips that are in everything are going to be a problem for a while... Don’t accidentally buy a train car full of chips... that is only available to you... Global shortages make wacky investor scams... Fuzzy memories from the early 90s regarding shortages of fertilizer... You would think somebody would have this figured out by now... Did somebody mention a 600hp outboard engine? https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/verado/verado-600hp/ Best regards, -a- Yeah...600hp outboard! Bet that caught the competition off guard just a little. Can’t wait for one of these to appear. 450R power is around already... Verado is a supercharged engine designed by Porsche for Mercury. I don’t know who helped them with this monster. that old German former ball bearing manufacturer once fired the coke machine vendor for leaning on the machine as old man kiekhaefer (Mercury founder) walked by. He was a tyrant/perfectionist. “But sir! I just service the coke machine!” as far as I know, no other manufacturer has been allowed to with a world championship competition...not one. Yamaha, evinrude etc... fact check me here... I haven’t looked in a decade. 2 Quote
MBDiagMan Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 600HP Outboard? My Ranger bass boat with a 150 Mercury will do almost 70 now. Maybe that 600 on the back would get it out of the water well enough that it could serve as both my boat and an airplane. Such consolidation would certainly be helpful on the budget. 1 Quote
MBDiagMan Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 49 minutes ago, Sandman993 said: Yeah...600hp outboard! Bet that caught the competition off guard just a little. Can’t wait for one of these to appear. 450R power is around already... Verado is a supercharged engine designed by Porsche for Mercury. I don’t know who helped them with this monster. that old German former ball bearing manufacturer once fired the coke machine vendor for leaning on the machine as old man kiekhaefer (Mercury founder) walked by. He was a tyrant/perfectionist. “But sir! I just service the coke machine!” as far as I know, no other manufacturer has been allowed to with a world championship competition...not one. Yamaha, evinrude etc... fact check me here... I haven’t looked in a decade. I thought Kiekhafer was Evinrude...... Nope, you’re right, Mercury. He was one of the first major NASCAR sponsors. I was thinking he was Evinrude. Quote
Sandman993 Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said: 600HP Outboard? My Ranger bass boat with a 150 Mercury will do almost 70 now. Maybe that 600 on the back would get it out of the water well enough that it could serve as both my boat and an airplane. Such consolidation would certainly be helpful on the budget. Some of the bay boats in my area are quick...105mph kind of quick. It’s the same old game of “one up” the other doods... let’s see who’s willing to spend the most. They certainly get a speed fix. All while on the “test driver” “we have no idea” research program... in other words, no training just drop the hammer and see! life is funny... in my area, it’s drive up in your $90,000 pickup with your $120,000 bay boat, get your speed fix (scare the hell out of yourself and crew) and then, go fishing. I always wonder what that cost them when/if their wives find out how much they spent. Oh well, anyone know of a good airplane forum? I somehow landed on the boat forum. 1 Quote
Navi Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 34 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said: 600HP Outboard? My Ranger bass boat with a 150 Mercury will do almost 70 now. Maybe that 600 on the back would get it out of the water well enough that it could serve as both my boat and an airplane. Such consolidation would certainly be helpful on the budget. 70 MPH! Bass fishing? Havn't met a bass yet that could swim faster than 60...... Nav 1 Quote
Navi Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Sandman993 said: Some of the bay boats in my area are quick...105mph kind of quick. It’s the same old game of “one up” the other doods... let’s see who’s willing to spend the most. They certainly get a speed fix. All while on the “test driver” “we have no idea” research program... in other words, no training just drop the hammer and see! life is funny... in my area, it’s drive up in your $90,000 pickup with your $120,000 bay boat, get your speed fix (scare the hell out of yourself and crew) and then, go fishing. I always wonder what that cost them when/if their wives find out how much they spent. Oh well, anyone know of a good airplane forum? I somehow landed on the boat forum. >>Oh well, anyone know of a good airplane forum? I somehow landed on the boat forum. << A survey was done in the Piper world a while back... Amazing number of pilots have boats, another bunch had bikes (NOT the ones you pedal) .. Some had both.. ! N 1 Quote
Navi Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Sandman993 said: Yeah...600hp outboard! Bet that caught the competition off guard just a little. Can’t wait for one of these to appear. 450R power is around already... Verado is a supercharged engine designed by Porsche for Mercury. I don’t know who helped them with this monster. that old German former ball bearing manufacturer once fired the coke machine vendor for leaning on the machine as old man kiekhaefer (Mercury founder) walked by. He was a tyrant/perfectionist. “But sir! I just service the coke machine!” as far as I know, no other manufacturer has been allowed to with a world championship competition...not one. Yamaha, evinrude etc... fact check me here... I haven’t looked in a decade. >>Yeah...600hp outboard! Bet that caught the competition off guard just a little.<< It did.. Amazing how Mercury manages to keep a lid on what they are doing until they are ready to ship... Something like Ford and the aluminum F150. They had a pile of them out for testing with fleet operators that had no idea they were aluminum... That rotating lower gearcase with AN AUTOMATIC 2 speed transmission is a game changer.. The boat manufacturers are scrambling to design around it.. Old saying around marine engines.. "Once you go Black, you never go back" Nav Quote
Sandman993 Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Navi said: >>Yeah...600hp outboard! Bet that caught the competition off guard just a little.<< It did.. Amazing how Mercury manages to keep a lid on what they are doing until they are ready to ship... Something like Ford and the aluminum F150. They had a pile of them out for testing with fleet operators that had no idea they were aluminum... That rotating lower gearcase with AN AUTOMATIC 2 speed transmission is a game changer.. The boat manufacturers are scrambling to design around it.. Old saying around marine engines.. "Once you go Black, you never go back" Nav Yep... skunk works at Fondulac Wisconsin. Quote
Sandman993 Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Navi said: >>Oh well, anyone know of a good airplane forum? I somehow landed on the boat forum. << A survey was done in the Piper world a while back... Amazing number of pilots have boats, another bunch had bikes (NOT the ones you pedal) .. Some had both.. ! 1 hour ago, Navi said: >>Oh well, anyone know of a good airplane forum? I somehow landed on the boat forum. << A survey was done in the Piper world a while back... Amazing number of pilots have boats, another bunch had bikes (NOT the ones you pedal) .. Some had both.. ! N I’ll wager there are some here in the “neat fkers” club too! Bikes, Chicks, Boats and Airplanes! Living the Dream! Quote
Hank Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Navi said: 70 MPH! Bass fishing? Havn't met a bass yet that could swim faster than 60...... Nav The idea is to get to the best fishing spots faster than the guys launching beside you . . . I only have a 150 Black Max on my little boat. Quote
MBDiagMan Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Navi said: 70 MPH! Bass fishing? Havn't met a bass yet that could swim faster than 60...... Nav Actually as Bass Boats go here in the Texas Lake Country, my boat is not even close to being in the Fast Bass Boat Class. The tournament fishermen want fast boats so they can spend less time traversing the lake and fish those last few minutes before racing across the lake to the weigh in. That’s what they say, but my take on it is that the fish are always biting on the other side of the lake so you have to get over there in a hurry. When I was a kid, the fishing boats were, by far, the slowest on the lake. Now the tournament fishermen usually have the fastest boats on the lake. Quote
Navi Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 56 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said: Actually as Bass Boats go here in the Texas Lake Country, my boat is not even close to being in the Fast Bass Boat Class. The tournament fishermen want fast boats so they can spend less time traversing the lake and fish those last few minutes before racing across the lake to the weigh in. That’s what they say, but my take on it is that the fish are always biting on the other side of the lake so you have to get over there in a hurry. When I was a kid, the fishing boats were, by far, the slowest on the lake. Now the tournament fishermen usually have the fastest boats on the lake. We have a couple around here that can be described as "ballistic" Quote
FlyingDude Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 Quick question: anyone have installed GFC under AP supervision? Quote
Navi Posted March 16, 2021 Report Posted March 16, 2021 Not heard of one .. when I asked, Dealer says NO, Garmin says "don't even think about it" . To be fair, even in a Piper, it is a very complex install , fitting several brackets and guides, match drilling and a complex setup. YMMV.... N 1 Quote
FlySafe Posted March 26, 2021 Report Posted March 26, 2021 Hi All, not sure if this reflects a recent price change but at Aircraft Spruce the Aerocruze 100 has a list price of $7,038; I was thinking it was ~5000 awhile back but I have not been following. Quote
FlySafe Posted March 26, 2021 Report Posted March 26, 2021 Apologies, I see Dr Google took me to the CAN site, US price still $5,100 Quote
Navi Posted March 26, 2021 Report Posted March 26, 2021 >>to the CAN site.... Hehe.... Welcome to my world.... N 1 Quote
MBDiagMan Posted March 27, 2021 Report Posted March 27, 2021 On 3/25/2021 at 8:10 PM, FlySafe said: Hi All, not sure if this reflects a recent price change but at Aircraft Spruce the Aerocruze 100 has a list price of $7,038; I was thinking it was ~5000 awhile back but I have not been following. It was $5000, but it’s been so long since they promised their certification was in the works, it’s had time to absorb aviation level inflation. If hey would have been truthful we could have bought one then for $5K. Quote
LANCECASPER Posted April 19, 2021 Report Posted April 19, 2021 On 3/16/2021 at 9:19 AM, Navi said: 70 MPH! Bass fishing? Havn't met a bass yet that could swim faster than 60...... Nav That's why you haven't met him . . . he swims faster than 60. Quote
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