TruTrak Autopilot Pre Order's / Status Update

[Baker Avionics]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

So mynearlier post.about the new, "inexpensive" Garmin autopilot needing an additional 30 AMU of Garmin "stuff" to work was correct. Above is a detailed actual quote for 15 AMU equipment plus 8 AMU labor, assuming that one G5 is already installed, so add at least another 4.5 AMU for that.

That's 20 AMU "stuff" plus 10 AMU labor, and the autopilot has not yet been purchased.

@Baker Avionics, what happened to the "inexpensive autopilot"????? How much more is the AP plus install? Let's spend 75% or more of my Mooney's value to add one! Sure thing . . . . .

Well, compare to STec and then you will understand. We have to be realistic in what we compare and decide as affordable is. TT is $5100 for a basic AP, GFC is $7500-ish, STec is $20k. The TT is limited if you read the specs and what you get as well as the quality. There is nothing wrong with it, it is what some folks, as well as me, think of as a cheap AP. The GFC500 you have plenty of features that will last you for a long time, read the specs and compare what you can do compared to the TT, head and shoulders more! The cost of that, to me and others, is affordable. The STec Digital AP has a little more features than the GFC, read the specs and compare, and the price tag, to me and others, is a lot.

I appreciate the question, however, if you put cheaper parts on the aircraft, will it perform as well as the higher quality ones? Are there different levels? Are some considered expensive, more affordable and then just cheap? Yes, that is what we are comparing here in my opinion. 

I appreciate your questions and research. 

[bmcconnaha]

One of the G5’s is more difficult to install and therefore more cost than the other... I was told 6k + tax drive out.
I would be disappointed to learn the phantom tt can’t fly an approach without a gadget to do the gpss work. I thought it simply received a signal from the approach plate in the ifr gps and flew that.
the biggest and most important reason I wanted a digital autopilot for this single fan airplane was, the altitude hold and lateral guidance. Already get lateral guidance from the gtn 750 to century and have gpss to process the language barrier between digital to analog fly the approach. No vertical guidance. And yes, I know that gpss doesn’t work for digital to digital.
perhaps us folk with the century autopilot should meet in mineral wells for an autopilot tune up party. Save ourselves some $$$. They might have a not so expensive solution to my altitude issue. As the tt drags on for years, that may become the desired outcome.
if this covid crap ever gets sorted out, I intend to spend a sizable chunk of my kids inheritance on airplane gas and hotels. 
 

 
 

 
 
 

I wish I would have flown my plane to mineral wells for the autopilot tune up, lol. That was a miserable experience. No communication. No real drive to get it done in a timely fashion. Maybe it’s covid, maybe not. I don’t know


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Navi]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I think TT needs an additional box to do the GPSS, like STEC has that sits between the GPS navigator and autopilot.
TT doesn’t have electric trim option or YD...so you need to be careful throwing around installation costs, you can’t compare a GFC 4 servos installation which means GPSS is provided to a TT 2 servo installation with only GPS navigation.

 

Hmm... FWIW.. the TT is fully capable if GPSS steering, as long as it is provided in the Navigator output ARINC 429 data sentence.  

It responds smoothly and very accurately to  EITHER "Nav" or "GPSS' data.. 

Nav

Edited December 19, 2020 by Navi

[Navi]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

So what does "only a G5 system" cost, installed? I honestly don't know, people here throw around too many unfamiliar part numbers for me to keep track of. I'll be needing something soon, hope my Brittain lasts until I can figure it all out. Ballpark pricing plus average labor hours will be good enough, nobody knows for sure until they dig in and see what all is behind the panel.

The G5 will replace my 6-pack, right? With airspeed and altitude readings that change without moving and can't be read at a glance to tell if I'm going off altitude, with the magically disappearing VSI? I love, love, love my IVSI.

Ummm... no.. The twin G5s or the Aspen e5 will replace your AI and DG. You have to legally retain your TC OR AI, and airspeed, Altimeter and sometimes, the VSI.

 

N

[Navi]

12 hours ago, carusoam said:

I take the responsibility for this one...  

There was some thread drift just before... as somebody was relating the news regarding post-65 Mooneys...

Fast on the trigger, I invited our big G guy to see the interest for the pre-65 birds...

I wanted his input...  even though it is right in the middle of a really good TT thread...

So... my apologies... and I’m doubly impressed with the brevity of @KLudwick’s response... 

And.... Now he has a better feeling of the cost sensitivity for some MSer’s in the category...

 

For the BK guys... Typical BK marketing... Put a date on those announcements... then stand by the date...

If you mean Q1 next year... write Q1 2020...

I see the opportunity to put this off again... in three weeks, next year becomes magically Q1 2022

Know that Covid 19 is not an excuse to be a year late...

the healthcare workers didn’t go on strike...

People developing Vaccines didn’t take any time off...

the firemen didn’t go on strike...

the grocery stores stayed open...

Everything has changed, except BK...

Change would be good...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

 

 

All true, except the FAA DID take time away from our unimportant needs and concentrate their (now) skeleton staff on the Boing  crap show. 

Unless you had your own "STC House" (Aka Garmin and Boeing) you were under the pile. 

Many, including BK. are struggling with budgets and staff that have disappeared and parts supply chains that have disappeared to the extent that they had to be "literally) replaced.. 

Here in Canada we have thousands of businesses that are gone forever, big and small. 

The US is in worse shape..  

N

[Hank]

8 minutes ago, Navi said:

 

Hmm... FWIW.. the TT is fully capable if GPSS steering, as long as it is provided in the Navigator output ARINC 429 data sentence.  

It responds smoothly and very accurately to  EITHER "Nav" or "GPSS' data.. 

Nav

So what else is needed besides a (hopefully?) approved TruTrak to replace my twin Brittains and drive me around the sky using my G430W? It's a long laundry list of Garmin stuff if I use the GFC500, and roughly quintuples the AP price.

What's the down-and-dirty real life TT gonna cost???

Somehow I no longer believe any of the low, low AP prices. Like saying I can add a wireless thermostat to my hiuse for $200, but first I need a particular model of cell phone, a new router, satellite internet only, a satellite antenna and different cabling from the new antenna to the router. Oh, and a server, too. But wireless thermkstat control is available for "only $200!"    

[Navi]

12 hours ago, cliffy said:

OK I'm lost here Greg

What am I  missing - what besides a compatible  GPS input and pitot/static does the TT need to perform  (up/down, left/right, alt hold, etc) the internal functions that are built into the TT autopilot?

All I want is GPS tracking or wings level and with pitch command and alt hold nothing more.

I won't need the extra 2 AIRINC inputs as I see it. 

Can't one fly legally IFR with just one WAAS GPS unit and nothing more in the panel? Won't the TT do its functions (down to 700' manual VNAV) with just that input? 

In looking at the block install diagram I see nothing more required?

I guess I'm lost or its too late at night to understand what you are saying.

And Thanks for all your comments here. It is much appreciated.

 

 

 

>>>Can't one fly legally IFR with just one WAAS GPS unit and nothing more in the panel? Won't the TT do its functions (down to 700' manual VNAV) with just that input? 

In looking at the block install diagram I see nothing more required?>>

 

Yes.   All you need... 

And although not "legal" I would not hesitate to push that "coupled" button IN AN EMERGENCEY and let it take me to the runway. 

Which it will do. The TT has guided experimental aircraft down coupled approaches thousands of times over a couple of decades.   TruTrak is NOT the new kid on the block. 

I am piling up the hours on mine, and if there were needles in the sky, you can thread then with this  autopilot. It just works that good. 

N

[carusoam]

Thanks for the continued supply of detail, Navi!

One thing for sure...  the pandemic is much harder on some small businesses than the large companies that have more ability to adapt...

In The US this week... our government is debating how to supply additional support that is needed by these small businesses...

And at the same time, the government’s budget needs to be renewed...

Covid has been the unequal opportunity destroyer....

thanks again and best regards,

-a-

[Navi]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

So what else is needed besides a (hopefully?) approved TruTrak to replace my twin Brittains and drive me around the sky using my G430W? It's a long laundry list of Garmin stuff if I use the GFC500, and roughly quintuples the AP price.

What's the down-and-dirty real life TT gonna cost???

Somehow I no longer believe any of the low, low AP prices. Like saying I can add a wireless thermostat to my hiuse for $200, but first I need a particular model of cell phone, a new router, satellite internet only, a satellite antenna and different cabling from the new antenna to the router. Oh, and a server, too. But wireless thermkstat control is available for "only $200!"    

 

 

From my install..  You need.... 

The TT Autopilot out of the box

An on/ off  (master) switch  ($9) 

A circuit breaker  ($36)

A push button on the yoke (CWS) switch   ($4)

A push button, on the panel , for  "Emergency Level"  ($8) 

A sonalert/buzzer and (optional) LED for the disco alarm  ($22)  ( ($6)

Hand tools and a power hand drill. 

About 22 hours of shop time (1 person)  including paperwork  (your local rate) 

Your choice of navigator, (WASS if IFR)  ANY navigator with a standard ARINC 429 "GPS" data output.  (they ALL have this for the past 30+ years. )  I am using a Garmin 150XL, installing a GPS 175 next month. 

 

That's the "down and dirty"  ( I installed it my self, (with mechanic oversight) and I ordered and paid for every component. I drilled every hole, made every connection, installed every switch and breaker and the wires, the setup, checkout and flight test. Flying it since March of 2018

This is an inexpensive autopilot without some of the features of more expensive ones. It is NOT a "cheap" product. I am trained in the electronics  industry and have been around it since 1966, and when it comes to components and motors, displays and servos, I know what I am looking at.  

Cheers!

N

 

[cliffy]

SO one TT,  One WAAS GPS and a 6 pack of steam gauges will give one a fully capable A/P even for LPV EXCEPT the A/P can't be driving the airplane below 700 AGL. Legal to fly anywhere in the USA IFR all day long as long as one has communication capability (one comm system)(430 covers it all). No backup systems but fully capable all in all. 

No auto trim or MACH cruise settings, auto-throttles, triple redundant A/Ps or fancy stuff like that.

The one button push for level flight feature is the biggest safety feature of all. This can save lives. I'm not a TT salesman but I can see good things here. My wife wants it more so than me!

Now one final drop kick-  In looking at the Mooneys access to the roll control for servo install may be somewhat difficult. In looking at mine I see access to elevator and rudder control is quite easy back in the radio rack area. With the spring coupled roll/yaw system we have I bet a good out come could be had by using that approach for servo installations. Mounted underneath the shelf push pull access would be simple. Ever tried to fly just using the rudder pedals? It flies nice that way. 

There was at least on autopilot approved years ago for left/right only that used the rudder for same. I'm willing to bet good flight characteristics would be found that way with our airplanes with our roll coupling spring. 
I'd like to take mine Experimental and try it or maybe go the "Basic Airplane" route and use Experimental electronics. I've got to find that old thread on someone who went BASIC with a C150. Might be a better way to go for the older airframes. Anyone know where it is?

Great input here from some very smart people in the industry

TOTH

Edited December 19, 2020 by cliffy
added text

[Hank]

Just now, Navi said:

 

 

From my install..  You need.... 

The TT Autopilot out of the box

An on/ off  (master) switch  ($9) 

A circuit breaker  ($36)

A push button on the yoke (CWS) switch   ($4)

A push button, on the panel , for  "Emergency Level"  ($8) 

A sonalert/buzzer and (optional) LED for the disco alarm  ($22)  ( ($6)

Hand tools and a power hand drill. 

About 22 hours of shop time (1 person)  including paperwork  (your local rate) 

Your choice of navigator, (WASS if IFR)  ANY navigator with a standard ARINC 429 "GPS" data output.  (they ALL have this for the past 30+ years. )  I am using a Garmin 150XL, installing a GPS 175 next month. 

 

That's the "down and dirty"  ( I installed it my self, (with mechanic oversight) and I ordered and paid for every component. I drilled every hole, made every connection, installed every switch and breaker and the wires, the setup, checkout and flight test. Flying it since March of 2018

This is an inexpensive autopilot without some of the features of more expensive ones. It is NOT a "cheap" product. I am trained in the electronics  industry and have been around it since 1966, and when it comes to components and motors, displays and servos, I know what I am looking at.  

Cheers!

N

 

Woo hooo!! That's what I thought abiut TT and bjg G. Sign me up! whenever the nice folks that bought the company manage to pushcertification paperwork through . . . . But their track record during my 13-1/2 years of Mooney ownership has been pretty dismal, with Announcements far outnumbering Certifications . . . .   

@Baker Avionics, this is a new, inexpensive AP!

[Navi]

10 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Thanks for the continued supply of detail, Navi!

One thing for sure...  the pandemic is much harder on some small businesses than the large companies that have more ability to adapt...

In The US this week... our government is debating how to supply additional support that is needed by these small businesses...

And at the same time, the government’s budget needs to be renewed...

Covid has been the unequal opportunity destroyer....

thanks again and best regards,

-a-

Welcome Sir!

We are fortunate here, I happen to live in Canada in the "Atlantic Bubble" . (you can actually Google it! )

And we are struggling hard, but OK. But I have friends with businesses in other areas and it has been devastating.  Businesses gone, incomes gone, retirements gone, loved ones gone... 

Any supply chain issues can take a business down - big or small, you are dead in the water if you cannot get the parts and supplies you need... 

It will be a long and difficult recovery... 

Cheers!

[Navi]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

So mynearlier post.about the new, "inexpensive" Garmin autopilot needing an additional 30 AMU of Garmin "stuff" to work was correct. Above is a detailed actual quote for 15 AMU equipment plus 8 AMU labor, assuming that one G5 is already installed, so add at least another 4.5 AMU for that.

That's 20 AMU "stuff" plus 10 AMU labor, and the autopilot has not yet been purchased.

@Baker Avionics, what happened to the "inexpensive autopilot"????? How much more is the AP plus install? Let's spend 75% or more of my Mooney's value to add one! Sure thing . . . . .

  This is a factor Hank!

We are starting a substantial upgrade here, new GPS Aspen + + ... 

Looked at the Avidyne 540 and other glass...  then a smuck of reality.. 

We were getting our investment into 6 seat territory, might as well trade planes!

Reality settled in... 

N

 

 

[Navi]

2 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

TT does not need the "extra box" aside from a G5 or Aspen for GPSS. 

Correct..

Most, with the Aspen, use a switch to get GPSS direct from the Navigator, and flip it to the Aspen for Baro Sync and heading.  (you can "fool" the Aspen into thinking it has a ACU attached, and it will pass through the Nav steering to the TT  but the GPSS tags do not pass through. )

We are adding the ACU 1 to get CPSS through the Aspen and get our VLOC displayed on the Aspen. 

N

[Navi]

20 minutes ago, cliffy said:

SO one TT,  One WAAS GPS and a 6 pack of steam gauges will give one a fully capable A/P even for LPV EXCEPT the A/P can't be driving the airplane below 700 AGL. Legal to fly anywhere in the USA IFR all day long as long as one has communication capability (one comm system)(430 covers it all). No backup systems but fully capable all in all. 

No auto trim or MACH cruise settings, auto-throttles, triple redundant A/Ps or fancy stuff like that.

The one button push for level flight feature is the biggest safety feature of all. This can save lives. I'm not a TT salesman but I can see good things here. My wife wants it more so than me!

Now one final drop kick-  In looking at the Mooneys access to the roll control for servo install may be somewhat difficult. In looking at mine I see access to elevator and rudder control is quite easy back in the radio rack area. With the spring coupled roll/yaw system we have I bet a good out come could be had by using that approach for servo installations. Mounted underneath the shelf push pull access would be simple. Ever tried to fly just using the rudder pedals? It flies nice that way. 

There was at least on autopilot approved years ago for left/right only that used the rudder for same. I'm willing to bet good flight characteristics would be found that way with our airplanes with our roll coupling spring. 
I'd like to take mine Experimental and try it or maybe go the "Basic Airplane" route and use Experimental electronics. I've got to find that old thread on someone who went BASIC with a C150. Might be a better way to go for the older airframes. Anyone know where it is?

Great input here from some very smart people in the industry

TOTH

>>

SO one TT,  One WAAS GPS and a 6 pack of steam gauges will give one a fully capable A/P even for LPV EXCEPT the A/P can't be driving the airplane below 700 AGL. Legal to fly anywhere in the USA IFR all day long as long as one has communication capability (one comm system)(430 covers it all). No backup systems but fully capable all in all. 

That's it, all of it! 

 

No auto trim or MACH cruise settings, auto-throttles, triple redundant A/Ps or fancy stuff like that.

I will suggest this to Andrew.. when he has crawled out of the BK hole he is in.. (parts supply , staff, budgets gone, piled up AP orders he can't get parts for, sick staff) 

But the TT with these features might cost as much as,...  maybe,  say a Garmin GFC 500 !! 

 

The one button push for level flight feature is the biggest safety feature of all. This can save lives. I'm not a TT salesman but I can see good things here. My wife wants it more so than me!

It is, and works exactly as intended. ... Ours is mounted  center in the panel, within reach of the right seat and possibly someone in the back seat with long arms. 

Cheers!

Nav

[Navi]

43 minutes ago, Hank said:

Woo hooo!! That's what I thought abiut TT and bjg G. Sign me up! whenever the nice folks that bought the company manage to pushcertification paperwork through . . . . But their track record during my 13-1/2 years of Mooney ownership has been pretty dismal, with Announcements far outnumbering Certifications . . . .   

@Baker Avionics, this is a new, inexpensive AP!

 

 

That's the real world of the TT and it really works well..   And the support has been good.. (all I have needed was the software upgrade to Vers #4, and it was handled quickly with good communication. )

NO ONE is more upset with the Certification fiasco than Andrew... !   Had a long mail from him  late Nov...  (more of general business discussion than Autopilots)  They (and He) are daily wading through issues that they never could have dreamed of..  Staff and budgets are gone, every plan, good intention, and promise, -   gone.  Other companies they depended upon for  Engineering, parts, raw materials.. EVEN PAINT  cannot fulfill their commitments to BK. They have major shipments they cannot complete, (Aerocruse APs , AKA TT,  are a small part of BK/Honeywell,  they have many other  major clients)  

I know of another company has orders piled up they cannot ship because they cannot get the friggin KNOBS for the controls! Even  planned "alternate" suppliers are down. (Or in one case,  gone  forever. ) They have orders cancelled because the ultimate customer / user cannot pay now.  A local petro company here has both aircraft parked because of Covid. Big change from when they barely allowed them time to cool down. 

One company I heard of in Alberta is wondering how they will survive.. Some of their most talented people are deceased...  Covid ripped them... 

It's a mess..... 

N

[Navi]

15 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

I think everyone thinks that you can use any Nav or GPS for the TruTrak which incorrect. It still needs the same equipment as the GGC with the exception of with the Trutrak you can use either the Aspen or G5 unless you are a VFR type pilot in which you still need a digital, low end, GPS. FWIW.

I am one that thinks so... Which ones won't work Greg?

It will work with any that output a "Nav"  (RS232) data stream, or a ARINC429 (GPSS) Data sentence. I have mine switchable between a Garmin 796 (yoke mount) and  GPS 150 XL (Panel)  Works perfectly. 

No other equipment needed. It will listen to the G5 or Aspen E5 in the mix as well. 

That covers all that I know of.. 

Nav 

[ArtVandelay]

TT does not need the "extra box" aside from a G5 or Aspen for GPSS. 

Well, a G5 or Aspen is the extra box I mentioned?

“Extra” means in addition to the TT head control unit.

[Navi]

On 12/17/2020 at 9:45 PM, Sandman993 said:

So, for about $16,000 installed, you can have the “affordable” new autopilot that can do half the stuff. Add another $6k and you can get everything but trim if you already have a gtn gps.
 

gotta hand it to garmin though, they can get their over priced products through the FAA process...unlike some companies.

 

 

Garmin have an "in house" STC team authorized by the FAA. A huge investment that is paying off in spades now that the remaining FAA staff are involved in other priorities... 

Nav

[Navi]

10 hours ago, Baker Avionics said:

Well, compare to STec and then you will understand. We have to be realistic in what we compare and decide as affordable is. TT is $5100 for a basic AP, GFC is $7500-ish, STec is $20k. The TT is limited if you read the specs and what you get as well as the quality. There is nothing wrong with it, it is what some folks, as well as me, think of as a cheap AP. The GFC500 you have plenty of features that will last you for a long time, read the specs and compare what you can do compared to the TT, head and shoulders more! The cost of that, to me and others, is affordable. The STec Digital AP has a little more features than the GFC, read the specs and compare, and the price tag, to me and others, is a lot.

I appreciate the question, however, if you put cheaper parts on the aircraft, will it perform as well as the higher quality ones? Are there different levels? Are some considered expensive, more affordable and then just cheap? Yes, that is what we are comparing here in my opinion. 

I appreciate your questions and research. 

 

 

>>Well, compare to STec and then you will understand. We have to be realistic in what we compare and decide as affordable is. TT is $5100 for a basic AP, GFC is $7500-ish, STec is $20k. The TT is limited if you read the specs and what you get as well as the quality. There is nothing wrong with it, it is what some folks, as well as me, think of as a cheap AP. The GFC500 you have plenty of features that will last you for a long time, read the specs and compare what you can do compared to the TT, head and shoulders more! The cost of that, to me and others, is affordable. The STec Digital AP has a little more features than the GFC, read the specs and compare, and the price tag, to me and others, is a lot.

 

All good comments... !

I will have to differ a bit in the "cheap"  part..    As for components, servos, connectors and displays etc., I would rate the TT product as very, very good quality. I installed  my own TT, and I have been in, and around the electronics industry since about 1966, and I know what I am looking at. It is not "hardened military grade", but is as good as or better  than most of the stuff in our aircraft, equal to or better than the Avydine Garmin and BK products. (IMHO of course)   The TT is "Inexpensive" due to fewer features, but that's it. "Head and shoulders " different ?...  I don't think so. The TT is lacking airspeed controlled climbs and descents, auto trim and approved coupled approaches, but that is about it.  The extra features of the Garmin may not matter to many, but are valuable for those that fly hard IFR a lot. 

The TT installs out number the Garmin about 10 to 1 or better in the Piper  28s and 32s, and the Cessna single guys report the same.   After a couple of years, some interesting information  is becoming apparent..

The TT/Aerocruise is getting an enviable reputation as an easy to install and setup AP.  99% Of the Pipers are flying "out the door" with the factory settings. The  reliability and quality control is remarkable. A few bad heads, servos, and I have not heard of any TT doing something it was not supposed to do. 

Garmin has already had a recall on servos, and the reports of them turning themselves on and pushing the nose down at very awkward times is concerning.  The "static porpoising "  issue with some airframes has not been solved after a year now.  (Garmin is waiting for a "donor" aircraft to track this one down)  (!)  

The extra money certainly gets you a more featured and more capable autopilot with the Garmin.  

You are very correct in equipping for your mission.   If you are flying into the clag often  because you have to be some place, the Garmin is the proper choice, - spend the $$$ to be as safe as possible in a capable aircraft with an equally capable AP. 

If you fly mostly VFR, occasionally into IFR but refuse to skirt with weather minimums,  the TT or others may be sufficient.  

S-Tec, with their archaic attitude to STCs, installations and service are still living in a diminishing dream world.  Their future is limited.  Century , - same, now a shadow of their former self, soon gone... (a new radio tracker board for a Century I is $3600 USD, - guess what  THAT customer did?  He, looking  at 3.6 AMUs plus $800 to repair, looked at the problem for about 2 seconds, then  installed a new TT for $7400 out the door!)  

And, of course,    If you have an unlimited budget, well ... enjoy! 

FWIW!

Nav

[ZuluZulu]

On 12/17/2020 at 1:53 PM, Navi said:

 

Lots of GFC 500s flying with the Avidyne Navigators. No issues, and the hard IFR guys like the choice of touch OR Knobs and shallow menus of the Avidynes. 

No limitations.

Nav

A smaller display with lower resolution doesn't count as "limitations"?

[Hector]

I think TT needs an additional box to do the GPSS, like STEC has that sits between the GPS navigator and autopilot.
TT doesn’t have electric trim option or YD...so you need to be careful throwing around installation costs, you can’t compare a GFC 4 servos installation which means GPSS is provided to a TT 2 servo installation with only GPS navigation.

I don’t think so. Reading the TT literature it says it will get GPSS straight form compatible GPS boxes like the GTN/GNC series of Garmin units. My hangar neighbor installed a TT in his cardinal. He already had a GTN 750. The AP flies beautiful LPV approaches to the numbers with full GPSS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Navi]

8 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

A smaller display with lower resolution doesn't count as "limitations"?

 

 On the head display or the Navigator display? 

Assuming you mean the Navigator.. Not really. 

Both brands have similar screen areas and resolutions, the differences are minor and operationally insignificant. I would be more critical if it was a rendition of a colour photograph or a home theatre, but  a pilot  needs it only to get "Information" in this case. 

At 30 inches (eyeball to display) the human eye can only discern  a certain pixel size, after which an increase in pixilation is not visible. Both screen resolutions are near or at this limit now.

 

The new Garmins have a larger screen, but the tradeoff has its cost.. 

Here is a post from another forum that explains it better than I can..  (more display size <> space for knobs) 

This is a "limitation" ... 

Nav

---------------------------------------------------------------------

(Name  removed) 

December 14 at 8:24 AM  · 

I recently had a GTN650Xi installed. I was all excited to have newer technology. Yesterday I flew in some pretty hefty bumpy air.

It was a textbook day to demonstrate why a touchscreen has no place in a GA cockpit.

Had I been in IMC with all the errant entries and the extra touches trying to correct the errors, I could see the possibility of losing aircraft control from the amazingly increased workload. Fortunately, I was able to use the autopilot while straightening out the mess.

I shouldn’t need to rely on an autopilot while making simple inputs frequency inputs to a NAV/COM GPS.

In short, I’m not pleased with the touchscreen AT ALL !

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Sandman993]

2 hours ago, Hector said:

I don’t think so. Reading the TT literature it says it will get GPSS straight form compatible GPS boxes like the GTN/GNC series of Garmin units. My hangar neighbor installed a TT in his cardinal. He already had a GTN 750. The AP flies beautiful LPV approaches to the numbers with full GPSS.


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That’s my point in a nutshell... the garmin could have put everything in the autopilot, but instead, chose to break the unit into tiny pieces so they could ring every $ out of the equipment. If tt and pro pilot can put all the goodies in a small pkg... kinda makes garmins model look like hwy robbery imho.

Add to that, the notion that they still to this day, advertise an autopilot for $7,000-8,000 + install that is useless without the extra equipment that costs another 10k installed... it just doesn’t sit right for me.

 

 

 

 

[Sandman993]

48 minutes ago, Navi said:

 

 On the head display or the Navigator display? 

Assuming you mean the Navigator.. Not really. 

Both brands have similar screen areas and resolutions, the differences are minor and operationally insignificant. I would be more critical if it was a rendition of a colour photograph or a home theatre, but  a pilot  needs it only to get "Information" in this case. 

At 30 inches (eyeball to display) the human eye can only discern  a certain pixel size, after which an increase in pixilation is not visible. Both screen resolutions are near or at this limit now.

 

The new Garmins have a larger screen, but the tradeoff has its cost.. 

Here is a post from another forum that explains it better than I can..  (more display size <> space for knobs) 

This is a "limitation" ... 

Nav

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(Name  removed) 

December 14 at 8:24 AM  · 

I recently had a GTN650Xi installed. I was all excited to have newer technology. Yesterday I flew in some pretty hefty bumpy air.

It was a textbook day to demonstrate why a touchscreen has no place in a GA cockpit.

Had I been in IMC with all the errant entries and the extra touches trying to correct the errors, I could see the possibility of losing aircraft control from the amazingly increased workload. Fortunately, I was able to use the autopilot while straightening out the mess.

I shouldn’t need to rely on an autopilot while making simple inputs frequency inputs to a NAV/COM GPS.

In short, I’m not pleased with the touchscreen AT ALL !

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On the gtn 750 in my bird, there’s a detent on the edges of the frame for the express purpose of steadying your finger for data input. As for the frequency changes and screen changes, I simply have to ask it. The gtn properly set up will accept around 150 voice commands. It should, think I paid.22k installed for that gadget.