To buy or not to buy? Rocket 305 TSI-520-NB

[donkaye]

4 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Don, your knock that it is a nose heavy airplane is correct, but it can be corrected - my rocket has a very balanced w&b now that I have had the MT prop on the nose for about 3 years.  It saved 35lbs off the nose.  For fun, check out what such a change does to a w&b.  It is now an honest light in pitch airplane and I would swear I am flying a lighter airplane.  The change is dramatic.

The problem is the Top Hat.  I've attached a spreadsheet for the Rocket Weight and Balance.  The CG range is from 40.6" to 49.3".  But from 40.6 to 45.1 the plane is practically useless due to being above the envelope for any reasonable pilot and copilot weight.  Do some "what ifs" with the spreadsheet to see what I mean.

wb Version 3.8 231 Rocket.xls

[rpcc]

Yeah - don't do this, unless you are marrying your flight instructor.  There's only room for 2 + fuel.   Just a guess, but your wife will get sick of you flying very quickly if this is the choice.

 

 

 

[RedSkyFlyer]

I’m believe the rocket may not be the best option for me, the turbo seems like overkill here in the UK and given all your feedback the risk isn’t worth the extra power. 

I do however love the plane, the idea of taking an old girl and taking her out for a seafood diner sounds too gentlemenly to refuse. @Hyett6420

Thinking about it, might even give me the time to slow down the training. Crawl, walk, run. Build up the hours in a more constructive way whilst WE build a new bird.

Thank you all for the feedback so far, really helping to make informed decision.

I guess the question now is: If you had $200k and 12 months to kill what would you do? 

[KSMooniac]

I concur that a Rocket is very likely too big of a jump right now... If you truly have a year off, I'd look for a nice J and fly it as much as you can, get the instrument rating, and take your bride on some fun trips after you get a bit more experience. You might find a J fits your needs just fine, or you could move up from there.

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[PTK]

14 hours ago, RedSkyFlyer said:

...I guess the question now is: If you had $200k and 12 months to kill what would you do? 

Considering your mission I’d buy a nice J and put a good chunk of that in the bank.

[Yooper Rocketman]

Hook up with @Hyett6420   He’s a respected regular here with a beautiful J model and a ton of GA experience in Europe.  He’ll point you in the right direction!

Tom

[Cody Stallings]

What Propeller is that?

Most of the Rockets have C505/C515 McCauley Propellers.

Those Props have Round tips on the blades, never seen one with square tip blades.

 

[carusoam]

I would seriously consider..... building on your first steps, knowing where you want to end up...

Allowing some flexibility for changing your thoughts when you have gained the experience of that year.....

Hold that 200amu for now....

Define the two step ownership process...

Step one... buy a first Mooney with an IO360 engine and a great IFR panel... (did you get to talk with @Hyett6420?)

• Build the experience of flying longer X-countries
• Build the experience of learning about flight planning, weather planning and saying no to things that won’t work out very well...
• Start the training for the IR. That usually starts after the first year of all the various weather cycles... hot to cold, dry to icing....
• You may Try to get 200 hours in that first year evenly distributed... check in with your CFI on putting a plan together...
• After the first year, or 200 hours, work on the IR...
• realistically, you will recognize your own progress... how much you can train, how much you want time off...
• While gaining the experience of the IR... you start getting a good handle on what your next plane will have...

Step two...

• decide on what body length your next Mooney should have...
• Decide whether it will be NA, TCd, or TN’d...
• Decide whether it will be the highest skilled plane for business travel...
• A/C, O2, FIKI, Full electronic panel.... (this is my dream Acclaim)
• Or scaled back to a NA, 310hp Long Body for sweet gentle cruising...  (this is my actual situation)
• There is still some training to go at this level...

You are going to love how this works out.  Take no unnecessary risks... double check your work... It is OK to pay full price to get the full safety...

Step three...

• There is something called a forever plane...
• Decide if Step two is going to be a plane that you will keep forever...
• If it is, Update the panel each time a box gets its certification...
• Look at some of the panels on the Forever planes around here...
• If it is too expensive to khold forever.... plan the retreat... M20C, and M20E have been long adored for their forever plane economics... affordable deep into the retirement years...

It’s always kind of expensive to change planes... on a personal level... if it is a work tool/ part of a business.... then it becomes more of an expense... get the right tool for the job...

One Step at a time... resist skipping to the next level... it won’t make any more sense in six months, than it did yesterday...

Keep plotting your plan... share it often...

At MS, we are good at planning how people should spend their money...   

PP thoughts only. Not a CFI... my two steps... M20C after 100hrs... M20R after 1khrs... forever plane...only if i’m Lucky...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

You've got the money and the time now, so I'd go for it. But I don't like the Rocket for you. I think you want an Ovation.

[Stephen]

6 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

  I personally think a J would fit his needs right now.  

 

Andrew

... I think he would be *very* happy with a nice J

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

... I think he would be *very* happy with a nice J

Shoot, I would be very happy with a nice J!! But I am content with a nice C.

[Stephen]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

Shoot, I would be very happy with a nice J!! But I am content with a nice C.

That is why I am high confidence with his loving a creampuff J  

[Stephen]

Or.... buy the rocket. Give it to me for 18 months.... I can let him fly my F to learn on and we swap back.

[RedSkyFlyer]

I’ve told the vendor we’re no longer interested.£130k if anyone wants her! 

Am I going to regret this in a few years? Such a pretty girl. 

In full knowledge of my intention not to peruse the sale the vendor is still offering to take me up on Thursday. Should I go for the ride...?

[Oldguy]

40 minutes ago, RedSkyFlyer said:

In full knowledge of my intention not to peruse the sale the vendor is still offering to take me up on Thursday. Should I go for the ride...?

Not many of us on MS would pass up a free ride in a Rocket. 

[Yooper Rocketman]

38 minutes ago, RedSkyFlyer said:

I’ve told the vendor we’re no longer interested.£130k if anyone wants her! 

Am I going to regret this in a few years? Such a pretty girl. 

In full knowledge of my intention not to peruse the sale the vendor is still offering to take me up on Thursday. Should I go for the ride...?

I'm not sure that would be a good idea.  I took a Florida "F" model owner up for a ride in my Rocket, which will be on the market in the next 4 months, who wanted first purchase option on mine.  He couldn't wait after the ride and is in the middle of a PPI right now on one.  But.....he's up near or over (can't  remember) 1,000 hours TT as a PP with an IFR rating.  His transition will be much more comfortable.

Tom

 

[zuutroy]

Have had my eye on that for a while. I would be sorely tempted to trade in my J if I could find a 50/50 partner.

A nice (though overpriced) F-reg J has just gone on sale. http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=40651

Might be worth looking at. I can help with the vagaries of F-reg ownership if you need a hand.

[bradp]

Also if you can get a plane in Europe on an N reg there are certain maintenance advantages. 

[Bravoman]

4 hours ago, zuutroy said:

Have had my eye on that for a while. I would be sorely tempted to trade in my J if I could find a 50/50 partner.

A nice (though overpriced) F-reg J has just gone on sale. http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=40651

Might be worth looking at. I can help with the vagaries of F-reg ownership if you need a hand.

That’s roughly 120k US. Just out of curiosity what do you think the right price is on this bird? I also wonder whether good planes in Europe have a higher value than the same specimen would be worth in the U.S. since there are far fewer planes in Europe?

[gsxrpilot]

While I'm not saying the Rocket is the right airplane in this situation, I would be very hesitant to pass up on an airplane (piston single) just because I wasn't "experienced" enough for it. My rational is that it's much easier to get the experience in a very safe and controlled way, rather than find that perfect (perfect for you) vintage airplane.

None of us are ever talking about the pro/cons of buying a new Ultra V or U. All of us here are focused on finding, buying and maintaining editions that are out of production. And from the few years I've spent around here, it appears that there are fewer and fewer nice Mooneys available each year.  Back in the day it might have made sense to slowly work your way up from a C or E before moving to a big bore or turbo Mooney. But as they become harder and harder to find, I think when you find a good one, get it. And then get the training and experience that you need to fly it safely.

[carusoam]

Remember the two step process...

1) get your first Mooney to start the planning for the next Mooney...  Best for your life...

2) getting a ride in a Rocket will sure help in the planning of the next mooney...

3) Don’t get drawn away from what makes sense... just by going for a ride...

4) this Advice is Coming from a guy who went for a ride in a 310hp Eagle once...  something happened and I ended up with a new 310hp engine in my plane.... a small finance miscue... 

5) take good notes of all the complexity and planning involved... ask a lot of questions... get the O2 experience... climb into the FLs...

6) Get hooked... gives you something to work at and look forward to... it will answer the question...’why am I doing this?’

7) It isn't hard to buy a powerful machine... it’s the ability to fly long distances in short times that has the danger associated with it...

8) Talk with as many other Mooney pilots as you can, over coffee, on the net... in the right seat... gathering up experience every way you can!

Best regards,

-a-

[zuutroy]

5 hours ago, Bravoman said:

That’s roughly 120k US. Just out of curiosity what do you think the right price is on this bird? I also wonder whether good planes in Europe have a higher value than the same specimen would be worth in the U.S. since there are far fewer planes in Europe?

Based on what I paid for mine I'd say it should sell for around €75k but as you say the market is so dry here that it largely depends on how badly someone wants a particular aircraft at a particular time and how quickly the seller needs it gone.

[Yooper Rocketman]

11 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

While I'm not saying the Rocket is the right airplane in this situation, I would be very hesitant to pass up on an airplane (piston single) just because I wasn't "experienced" enough for it. My rational is that it's much easier to get the experience in a very safe and controlled way, rather than find that perfect (perfect for you) vintage airplane.

None of us are ever talking about the pro/cons of buying a new Ultra V or U. All of us here are focused on finding, buying and maintaining editions that are out of production. And from the few years I've spent around here, it appears that there are fewer and fewer nice Mooneys available each year.  Back in the day it might have made sense to slowly work your way up from a C or E before moving to a big bore or turbo Mooney. But as they become harder and harder to find, I think when you find a good one, get it. And then get the training and experience that you need to fly it safely.

 

7 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Also depends on the airspace he would be learning in.  Low hours, high perfomamce turbo plane, in and around the most complicated and congested airspace in the world, is not a good mix.  Remember hes based right next to Heathrow!

 

It's a rare day I would recommend against a Rocket purchase but this is like my long established trigger points for making a go/no go decision on flying.  I have a list of "strikes", like questionable weather, night time flying, tired, plane out of recent serious maintenance, any "get there itis" tied to the trip, etc.  Not one will stop me from flying, but two gives me serious pause, three and it's an absolute no go.  I've never violated that rule and believe it's done me well.

This plane, although a very nice specimen and awesome performer, hits a lot of the "strikes" for this pilot.  Low time, no IFR rating, flying in heavy airspace, flying in a region that restricts flight level flying for GA, has a very low MPG down low in a region with high gas prices, AND he wants to land on grass strips in probably the worst Mooney there is to put on grass.  I don't wish him anything but good luck on his future purchase, and will share any and all knowledge I have from 17 years of Rocket ownership.  I just don't think it's a good fit.

Tom

[RedSkyFlyer]

Ive spent too much time looking at photos I can’t pass up the free ride, maybe it will set the bar high but atleast I’ll be able to follow someone other than my old instructor, like everyone has said the more Mooney hours the better right? 

If I have to give up the rocket dream (all be it for sound reason!) you guys are going to have to help me build something awesome! 

@Hyett6420 @Yooper Rocketman

[carusoam]

Red,

When you say build something awesome...

There is Room for that as well... if you have followed Yooper’s thread of the project he has been building for the last decade or so...

You are at the beginning of one of the most awesome roads...   

Stay on the path... until you have the experience to know when it is OK to leave the path...

One question for you... what business were you in before?

Best regards,

-a-