Standard rate turns with glass

[PTK]

Here's a stupid question for those with glass and electronic AI’s. How do you determine bank angles for standard rate turns? I’m aware of and not asking for rule of thumb. I’m asking if the AI indicates the bank angle necessary based on TAS. Seems it could be programned do display a mark corresponding to standard rate bank angle.

[Cruiser]

2.3.4.7. Rate of Turn Indicator
A Rate of Turn Indicator (Figure 2-2, No. 48) with a range of 0 to 6 degrees per second
is provided for both the 360 and ARC Compass Modes. The indicator consists of a
curved white tape that extends from the Numerical Heading Indicator’s lubber line and
in the direction of the turn, along the outer curve of the compass card.
The Rate of Turn Indicator features an outer thick white tick mark for a Standard Rate
turn, and an inner thin white tick mark for Half-Standard Rate turns. A Standard Rate,
two-minute turn equals 3 degrees per second. When the rate of turn exceeds 6 degrees
per second, an arrowhead is added to the end of the tape to show that the rate of turn
has exceeded the limits of the indicator (Figure 2-46).

[jetdriven]

I don’t have a T/C but at ground speeds of ~100 knots a 17 degrees bank is about standard rate, 3 degrees per second. At 150KT it’s 22 degrees.  You get the point. 

 

[Jeff_S]

And the G1000 display is very similar...

 

[Hank]

Dang, those sure are thin lubber lines! Can't they just make it wide enough to see without squinting, like the nice fat lines on my TC?

[gsxrpilot]

The autopilot has no problem reading those lines and flies a perfect standard rate turn every time. 

[Hank]

21 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

The autopilot has no problem reading those lines and flies a perfect standard rate turn every time. 

Which is fine. But sometimes I enjoy flying the plane myself! Even if I'm not perfect . . . . ..

[Marauder]

Dang, those sure are thin lubber lines! Can't they just make it wide enough to see without squinting, like the nice fat lines on my TC?

Never fear Hank, Aspen made it clearly viewable. Look at the width of the line and compare it to the turn coordinator’s in the lower left of the picture. They are roughly the same size.




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[Danb]

Just line up the line to the edge of the floor get director line,erfect large standard rate turn, exceptionally easy in the soup or when with your CFI.

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

The autopilot has no problem reading those lines and flies a perfect standard rate turn every time. 

and the resolution is just horrible on those archaic displays

 

[Danb]

Gotta love spell check,floor equals flight director,refect equals perfect. Shows I don't read what I write.

[Marauder]

5 minutes ago, Danb said:

Gotta love spell check,floor equals flight director,refect equals perfect. Shows I don't read what I write.

Now that we got your translation. I agree the flight director is a nice tool. The single cue is great in IFR. Just keep the wedge under the flight director wings and you are on course.

[donkaye]

13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

The autopilot has no problem reading those lines and flies a perfect standard rate turn every time. 

Not sure which autopilot you have, but my KFC 150 does't fly standard rate turns.  The bank angle for it is about 20°.  I think the S-Tec AP can maintain specific bank angles for small angles of bank.

[Marauder]

53 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Not sure which autopilot you have, but my KFC 150 does't fly standard rate turns.  The bank angle for it is about 20°.  I think the S-Tec AP can maintain specific bank angles for small angles of bank.

My STEC does fly standard rate. The only time it doesn't is when you are close to intercepting something when it will go below standard rate.

[jetdriven]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

My STEC does fly standard rate. The only time it doesn't is when you are close to intercepting something when it will go below standard rate.

The S-TEC is a rate-based autopilot. It has the T/C and it uses that to determine turn rate. Attitude-based autopilot airplanes may not have a T/C.  But it does not matter.  There is no requirement for a standard rate turn in the ATC system anymore.  20-25 degrees of bank is good.

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

There is no requirement for a standard rate turn in the ATC system anymore.  20-25 degrees of bank is good.

Curious where do you draw that from, was their something regulatory previously that stated turns at standard rate? Given that the TERPS protected airspace is modeled after standard rate turns at your category aircraft or maximum holding airspeed and their assumed modeled max winds for the altitude, it seems you could conceivably get into trouble if you turned at less than standard rate, but not more than standard rate. So it seems you wouldn't want to use less than standard. And side question, are you able to complete circling approaches kn transport category aircraft within the protected airspace without exceeding standard rate?

[jetdriven]

17 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Curious where do you draw that from, was their something regulatory previously that stated turns at standard rate? Given that the TERPS protected airspace is modeled after standard rate turns at your category aircraft or maximum holding airspeed and their assumed modeled max winds for the altitude, it seems you could conceivably get into trouble if you turned at less than standard rate, but not more than standard rate. So it seems you wouldn't want to use less than standard. And side question, are you able to complete circling approaches kn transport category aircraft within the protected airspace without exceeding standard rate?

I think they're saying close is good enough. None of the transport category aircraft I have flown have a turn coodinator, which led me to remove the one in my 201 as well.  Circling maneuvers are rare, but I do have them on my Type rating for the 747-400 and the 737NG. We were always trained to use ~25 degrees of bank. If course use all available information (DME, GPS, etc)  to remain in the protected zone. Yes I agree strongly with you, that less than standard rate turns can get you into trouble.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC91-75.pdf

"Replacing the rate-of-turn indicator will mean losing an easy reference for standard rate turns. However, in today’s air traffic control system, there is little need for precisely measured standard rate turns or timed turns based on standard rate. Maintaining a given bank angle on theattitude indicator for a given speed will result in a standard rate turn. Pilots using this AC to substitute an attitude indicator for their rate-of-turn indicator are encouraged to know the bank angle needed for a standard rate turn."

Edited February 23, 2018 by jetdriven