Parallel parking the Mooney (don't try this at home)

[Bob_Belville]

13 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I'm glad you're alive to tell the tale. Engine out at night over a city, You did a fantastic job!  

Clarence

+1

 

[BigAl]

5 hours ago, chrixxer said:

I was the pilot. My passenger was a 2016 graduate of the same university/fraternity. If I’d had a chute I would have pulled it (we were ~1800’ AGL descending into KBUR when we lost the engine). My primary concern was my passenger and those on the ground. I looked for the darkest side street I could find (10pm in Glendale on a Friday night, the major roads were clogged with traffic). I just flew her until I couldn’t. In maneuvering to avoid an apartment building I stall/spinned her into a tree. That Mooney fuselage protected us very well.

She wasn’t perfect, but she was solid. I’ve had her 4 months and flown her 65 hours (she was down for ~10 weeks getting avionics work done, which I knew when I bought her would be required), everything from pattern practice at Chino to 12K IFR trips to Utah and Arizona. Two A&Ps have worked on her. I’ll advise when I know more about what happened last night.

All I do know is, as far as I know I kept in control of the plane as much as possible, and whatever skill I have as a pilot was heavily augmented by luck (no damage to property on the ground, no injuries).

Now I’m sore, stiff, exhausted, and bowing out for at least a little while. I do believe I’ll have another Mooney someday though.

 

Well done sir!

[bonal]

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I'm glad you're alive to tell the tale. Engine out at night over a city, You did a fantastic job!  

Clarence

Ditto on that. As for pulling the chute if you had one there would be no guarantee the outcome would have been as good. With zero control you might have dropped into one of the crowded streets you mentioned as it was you were outstanding in your performance with a fantastic result. When you are able and willing I and others would really appreciate any information about any symptoms you might have noticed Pryor to the engine out. 

So happy you and your pax and those on the ground suffered not but very sad for your E and hope you get back in the air soon.

[gsxrpilot]

Well done! I can't help but think that cool nerves and calm rational thought... that came through clearly on the radio transmissions... went a long way to delivering this exceptional outcome. 

[JohnB]

Your ATC audio says it all, you were cool, calm and collected and, being that, you were able to rationalize and select out of all of your choices in an emergency and made the best choice possible AND had a great outcome. You can always get another plane. Very impressive sir. Hope you're back in the air flying soon!

[JohnB]

5 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Well done! I can't help but think that cool nerves and calm rational thought... that came through clearly on the radio transmissions... went a long way to delivering this exceptional outcome. 

Ha!! Thats funny.. we said pretty much the same thing at the identical time!

[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, JohnB said:

Ha!! Thats funny.. we said pretty much the same thing at the identical time!

Great Minds... and all that 

[steingar]

My only hope is I handle things as well when and if my time comes.  Genuinely impressed. We've a true airman in our midst.

[1964-M20E]

sorry to hear about this but great job getting to the ground and I'm glad everyone is safe.

 

Get back on the horse.

 

[chrixxer]

A friend and I flew to Paso Robles yesterday in his Cirrus; he flew up, I handled Comms and pointed out he was flying a pattern for the wrong runway (calm winds; runway 19, which we'd been announcing on CTAF). After lunch he cajoled me into taking the left seat for the return trip. (I know him well - we've flown that SR22 together many times and knew he was comfortable flying/landing from the right seat if necessary, and not bashful about taking the controls if need be (he jumped into one of my earliest landings in that plane, when I was still a fresh PPL, early last year). He was my ferry companion when I brought the Mooney home from Asheville.)

I took off, kept a higher altitude than I would have before (9,500'), was particularly in tune with the engine (that SR22, a G2, has analog engine gauges in addition to the MFD engine monitor display page and thumbnail data on the maps page). We were on with LA Center and then TRACONs for the entire flight. Hand-flew to cruise, let autopilot handle the magenta line, then hand-flew into a pretty good moderate crosswind landing.

I've been advised not to let it go even a week - too easy to let 1 become 2 become an indefinite number, and suddenly you're a rusty pilot whose last trip up ended in a crash...

I had the same thoughts re the Cirrus chute. Loss of directional control and a ~3500# mass now dropping towards ... an apartment building? A gridlocked street or freeway? It wasn't an option that night so I can't say what I would have done in that moment; I had a glider and a radio and a rapidly shrinking "amoeba" in ForeFlight...

Edited September 25, 2017 by chrixxer

[N6758N]

5 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

A friend and I flew to Paso Robles yesterday in his Cirrus; he flew up, I handled Comms and pointed out he was flying a pattern for the wrong runway (calm winds; runway 19, which we'd been announcing on CTAF). After lunch he cajoled me into taking the left seat for the return trip. (I know him well - we've flown that SR22 together many times and knew he was comfortable flying/landing from the right seat if necessary, and not bashful about taking the controls if need be (he jumped into one of my earliest landings in that plane, when I was still a fresh PPL, early last year). He was my ferry companion when I brought the Mooney home from Asheville.)

I took off, kept a higher altitude than I would have before (9,500'), was particularly in tune with the engine (that SR22, a G2, has analog engine gauges in addition to the MFD engine monitor display page and thumbnail data on the maps page). We were on with LA Center and then TRACONs for the entire flight. Hand-flew to cruise, let autopilot handle the magenta line, then hand-flew into a pretty good moderate crosswind landing.

I've been advised not to let it go even a week - too easy to let 1 become 2 become an indefinite number, and suddenly you're a rusty pilot whose last trip up ended in a crash...

I had the same thoughts re the Cirrus chute. Loss of directional control and a ~3500# mass now dropping towards ... an apartment building? A gridlocked street or freeway? It wasn't an option that night so I can't say what I would have done in that moment; I had a glider and a radio and a rapidly shrinking "amoeba" in ForeFlight...

Talk about getting back on the horse, great job Chris! Happy to hear you guys are okay and you're already back in the air. Can you provide us any insight on what was going on with the engine when it quit? 

[Ned Gravel]

Well done Chris:

The day after I ground looped our Arrow some 120 nm from home, I spent an hour with each of four instructors at my home drome the following day for the same reason.  

I still spent a year and a half blaming myself for the loss and I hope you do not do this.  It turns out the insurance company determined a gear failure but still my fault for flying it at colder than minus 25 Celsius.  One of the reasons I bought a J-bar Mooney.  

[chrixxer]

It was running, then it wasn't. Immediately switched tanks and hit the boost pump. Nothing. Went through the restart checklist ("retard throttle"). Nothing. Got on the radio and declared. (Not sure of the timing of all of this, it was all pretty sudden.) Cockpit was loud and we were still showing 1500rpm or so (which I now recognize was almost certainly just windmilling) and still had fuel pressure indicated. My first radio call was that I thought we'd lost an engine. But it soon became apparent we had no power. We were pitched for best glide (105) - I should have pulled the prop back, but even if I had, at ~1800' AGL and >5 miles out, we weren't going to make the airport. I probably spent a minute still intending to try to glide to BUR and trying to restart. I had long ago transcribed all the checklists into ForeFlight (and had a scan of the owner's manual in there too as a PDF), which saved invaluable time, SA, and stress vs digging those materials out in the dark, fumbling with a flashlight and finding the right pages, etc., and the ForeFlight amoeba finally told me what I had to accept: We could not glide to the airport. We were going down on a street.

[steingar]

Chis, you have good friends.  I didn't fly for 9 months after my own little "incident", and after that wasn't certain I wanted to.

[HRM]

35 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

(Not sure of the timing of all of this, it was all pretty sudden.) 

"all the right moves"

Bravo sir, and thank you!

[aviatoreb]

Chris - for sure there was a good dose of luck, but it is clear from your radio and your statements here that you did a fantastic job optimizing your luck.  Glad to hear from you, and especially that you are healthy and well to do tell us all about it.

Edited September 25, 2017 by aviatoreb

[AlexLev]

Rock on man. I am so glad you are okay and went flying again immediately afterward.

[DXB]

4 hours ago, chrixxer said:

It was running, then it wasn't. Immediately switched tanks and hit the boost pump. Nothing. Went through the restart checklist ("retard throttle"). Nothing. Got on the radio and declared. (Not sure of the timing of all of this, it was all pretty sudden.) Cockpit was loud and we were still showing 1500rpm or so (which I now recognize was almost certainly just windmilling) and still had fuel pressure indicated. My first radio call was that I thought we'd lost an engine. But it soon became apparent we had no power. We were pitched for best glide (105) - I should have pulled the prop back, but even if I had, at ~1800' AGL and >5 miles out, we weren't going to make the airport. I probably spent a minute still intending to try to glide to BUR and trying to restart. I had long ago transcribed all the checklists into ForeFlight (and had a scan of the owner's manual in there too as a PDF), which saved invaluable time, SA, and stress vs digging those materials out in the dark, fumbling with a flashlight and finding the right pages, etc., and the ForeFlight amoeba finally told me what I had to accept: We could not glide to the airport. We were going down on a street.

Great work!!! And thanks for sharing your harrowing experience.  Like you, most folks here I suspect have no concept of what it sounds like with just the prop windmilling or how fast it can turn.  If I saw rpm drop to 1500  and no response to throttle position changes, my first impression would likely be yours - it might be running with partial power. The uncertainty could waste valuable time,  but I remain too chicken to pull the mixture in flight just to see what it feels like.  With the benefit of considering your experience, I suppose the next move might be to glance at EGTs on the monitor to know for sure - I wonder if this step belongs on personal checklists for people with engine monitors. 

[chrixxer]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

I remain too chicken to pull the mixture in flight just to see what it feels like.  With the benefit of considering your experience, I suppose the next move might be to glance at EGTs on the monitor to know for sure - I wonder if this step belongs on personal checklists for people with engine monitors. 

Re pulling the mixture in flight: I would do it, with a CFI, in the pattern, with tower advised as to our intention. My DPE pulled the engine to idle during my checkride (in the pattern at CNO) and I've drilled similar situations in other planes (including an M20B during my transition training), but I've never experienced the engine being off before.

Re the engine monitor: Yes, absolutely. IMHO, your personal checklist should reflect the configuration of your aircraft and all the information / resources available to you in it.

[Jim Peace]

33 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

I would do it, with a CFI,

What does being a CFI have got to do with competence? I am an MEII and I don't think I could pull off what you did with such calmness........

plus how would the FAA view a pilot intentionally turning off his only engine?  As you found out we are flying go carts with wings and we are almost an emergency with everything going well....why make it a double emergency by doing actual engine out ops.....

 

 

 

 

[neilpilot]

1 hour ago, Jim Peace said:

What does being a CFI have got to do with competence? I am an MEII and I don't think I could pull off what you did with such calmness........

plus how would the FAA view a pilot intentionally turning off his only engine?  As you found out we are flying go carts with wings and we are almost an emergency with everything going well....why make it a double emergency by doing actual engine out ops.....

 

 

 

 

When I was working on my PPL in a C150, I had the CFI turn off the fuel valve, while I wasn't looking, to simulate an engine out. We were nowhere near the airport. I restarted the engine, flew back to KIAG, and fired the instructor.

[chrixxer]

On 9/25/2017 at 4:34 PM, Jim Peace said:

how would the FAA view a pilot intentionally turning off his only engine? 

You know what's ... interesting? This is taken directly from the owner's manual for the E (p. 23):

“The following method is useful for monitoring remaining fuel. After take-off with both tanks full, use one tank only until one hour of fuel is depleted from it. Then switch to the second tank and record the time of switch-over on the elapsed time indicator on the clock. Use all the fuel in the second tank. Then, the time of fuel remaining in the first tank is the time it took to deplete the second tank, less one hour. However, this will be correct only if the cruise altitude and power setting remain unchanged. If a tank runs dry and the engine loses power, retard the throttle before restarting. Restarting with advanced throttle may cause engine over-speeding and can lead to mechanical malfunction.” (Emphasis added.)

[Jim Peace]

38 minutes ago, chrixxer said:

You know what's ... interesting? This is taken directly from the owner's manual for the E (p. 23):

“The following method is useful for monitoring remaining fuel. After take-off with both tanks full, use one tank only until one hour of fuel is depleted from it. Then switch to the second tank and record the time of switch-over on the elapsed time indicator on the clock. Use all the fuel in the second tank. Then, the time of fuel remaining in the first tank is the time it took to deplete the second tank, less one hour. However, this will be correct only if the cruise altitude and power setting remain unchanged. If a tank runs dry and the engine loses power, retard the throttle before restarting. Restarting with advanced throttle may cause engine over-speeding and can lead to mechanical malfunction.” (Emphasis added.)

yes I know but .....holy crap......who would do that......

This comes from the same engineers who designed a fuel selector where you have to go through off to switch tanks.  There must certainly be a better way....

[Skates97]

I've run a tank dry a few times, but that is at 9,500' or 10,500'. I think I would need a clean pair of shorts if it happened in the pattern...

[jaylw314]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 1:08 PM, Skates97 said:

I've run a tank dry a few times, but that is at 9,500' or 10,500'. I think I would need a clean pair of shorts if it happened in the pattern...

I did too, and I won't try it again.  I was trying to run the tank empty so I could measure the actual amount of fuel it holds.  I figured I'd just switch over at the first sign of any hesitation.  I was running at low power, and I had difficulty telling when the engine actually quit until I noticed I was descending.  It must have been 10-15 seconds after the engine was actually out, but with the prop windmilling there was very little change in sound.  I switched over to the other tank and turned the boost pump on, and the engine coughed, stumbled and hesitated for what seemed like forever (but was probably only 5-10 seconds).  And yes, I needed a clean pair of shorts afterwards

Edited September 28, 2017 by jaylw314