Mooney IFR Students' Thread

[Bob]

My 2 favorite terms in aviation are "unable" and "personal Minimum".  These keep us in control for flying the plane at a safe level.  These terms are almost never questioned.

[MooneyMitch]

This is probably a no-brainer for experienced IFR pilots, or for those that are currently training and have already realized this.  But for me, this a new realization.

All of my life, I have been a visual person with references to everything outside my sphere.  Riding motorcycles, snow skiiing, flying, playing and performing music, and just about everything else I can think of. 

With regards to flying an airplane, it has been mostly a visual experience to outside references [a few exceptions here and there..........like on a completely dark night!] .  All of a sudden, I am controlling the airplane with complete loss of that perspective.   Duh, really?  Seems like an easy perception, one I've thought about but, never really fully absorbed until this point in my flying days. 

I have heard and read so many times that the IFR rating is the most difficult to obtain.  Maybe this is why,maybe not.  I'm sure I will have a better understanding of this as we continue through the process.  Yes, and I too say to myself, are you serious?  Can I really do this safely?  At this point, it seems on the fence to me, but what a great challenge in the meantime.

Happy Mooney flying to EVERYONE!

[Hank]

Just wait for your first bit of spatial disorientation! Whheeeee!!! It's a quick trip down, but fortunately I caught it just after exiting the clouds, and climbed back as required. Only happened the one time, on an early training flight. Seems I was turning right to capture an airway, at cruise power.

I have not yet had a problem with descents in the almost-a-year since getting my IA. Even during heavy training, being down to 90 knots [105 mph] with Approach flaps by the IAF made all the difference. I have not noticed a huge difference in vertical speed by going to full flaps; dropping the gear seems to do more, and pulling the throttle back does the most.

[RobertoTohme]

Keep in mind that you should be configured for landing (gear down, 3 green; flap @t/o; fuel/prop/mixture set, landing checklist complete) by the FAF.  In most "for real" IMC approaches, you'll end up landing with only t/o flaps unless you break out well above minimums that you can safely deploy landing flap when runway is assured...  If the runway has a published instrument approach, should be long enough to stop the Mooney at the slightly higher approach speed of t/o flaps anyway.

[Hank]

I usually land with Takeoff flaps anyway, even when VFR. To quote from my Owner's Manual:

"Degree of flap deflection needed will vary according to landing conditions, but for most landings you should lower flaps about half way just prior to turning on to base leg. Extend flaps as required on final approach to adjust for variations in wind, glide angle, and other variables.

BEFORE-LANDING CHECK

1. Seat Belts--FASTENED.

2. Fuel Selector Handle--SET for fuller tank.

3. Electric Fuel Pump--ON.

4. Mixture Control--FULL RICH

5. Carburetor Heat--FULL ON.

6. Airspeed--REDUCE to 120 MPH.

7. Propeller--FULL INCREASE.

8. Landing Gear--DOWN and LOCKED; green annunciator light on.

9. Flaps--As required.

10. Trim--As required.

Most times I don't even look to see where the flaps are, I just push the switch to raise them when I'm comfortable on the rollout. And since I reset the trim prior to takeoff, I usually ignore where that indicator is, too, but I do notice that it is often very near the Takeoff mark when I'm doing the run-up. [P.S.--my home field is 3000', with nice, tall trees at both ends. No problem getting down with Takeoff flaps. I frequently take off with no flaps, too, but that's just input from two Mooney instructors.] I move flaps and trim, and sometime the throttle, as required to put the plane where I want it. Following a glideslope, though, I usually do at Approach flaps, and find the slippery Mooney descends well if I drop the gear with the needle a dot-and-a-half above center--that will usually bring me down right on the glideslope if I don't muck up anything else.

Missed approaches require full power and lots of forward yoke, sometimes with both hands, until I've established and verified positive climb, raised gear and flaps, and then start cranking on the trim wheel. Makes me glad that I'm not in one of the new fire-breathers! Touch-n-goes on long fields [5000+] give me time to get the flaps up [i rarely slow even to 50 mph], and I adjust the trim during the climbout anyway, to hold the desired pitch.

We do have the perfect planes for instrument work. Fly safety pilot for someone in a Skyhawk, or fly a practice approach in one. There is so little to do, and so much time to do it in, it's almost boring. My plane rides better and handles crosswinds so much nicer! The whole key is practice, and I really need to go practice some more approaches real soon. It's been a long, nasty winter, and I can feel myself getting rusty. The real challenge to IFR flying, in my very limited experience, is getting/keeping a good scan, and staying sharp. Don't fly any approaches for a few months, then go out and do 3 or 4 at different, nearby airports--it's like being a student again, hot and sweaty even in the winter . . . .

[FlyFstr]

Re: the missed procedure (CLIMB, CLEAN, COOL, COMMUNICATE)

In the for what it's worth department I have always found it easy to remember the 5 C's -

Cram it (full power), climb it, clean it,  cool it and call it (communicate).

I guess it's hard to imagine someone wouldn't add full power (cram it) but I've learned in rough weather things can get real busy real quick.

 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: Hank

I usually land with Takeoff flaps anyway, even when VFR. To quote from my Owner's Manual:

"Degree of flap deflection needed will vary according to landing conditions, but for most landings you should lower flaps about half way just prior to turning on to base leg. Extend flaps as required on final approach to adjust for variations in wind, glide angle, and other variables.

[davidfreedman]

Quote: N4352H

While some do it, slipping any Mooney is ill-advised. I used to do it all the time until I read up on it and looked at the data. There have been numerous articles in MAPA and elsewhere on this subject. Tails stalls can be sharp. With full flaps, gear down, throttle choked, decent rates close to 2000fpm are attainable, negating the needless risk of slipping. 

 

My preferred technique for getting your Mooney down that I didn't see anyone mention: cutting your power (or dropping appropriately so as not to overcool), nose level or slghtly high to bleed off speed and as you approach your desired speed, pitch down to maintain speed.  In the process, you can really feel the plane lose energy both though your butt and control softening and you'll get a solid descent rate.  This works like a charm, particularly when you find yourself close to the runway and high. 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: N4352H

While some do it, slipping any Mooney is ill-advised. I used to do it all the time until I read up on it and looked at the data. There have been numerous articles in MAPA and elsewhere on this subject. Tails stalls can be sharp. 

[FlyingAggie]

Would you slip your short or mid body Mooney while in IMC?

[flight2000]

For those off us that don't have speedbrakes, remember we have a really big one on the nose if you're a little fast coming down the approach path.  Pull back to 19 squared and see what you feel.  The prop will slow the plane down fairly quickly once it bites.  Of course, this won't work if you just chop the power.

I would not slip my Mooney and prefer to stay ahead of the plane...

Brian

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: KLRDMD

I'm all for training, but if you're talking ratings and certificates in our own airplanes, there's a limit to what we can get. After single engine ATP (my next rating), what's left ?

[Jerry 5TJ]

Quote: mooneygirl

... the dreaded "where are you?" question and  I set up the VOR in the "to" mode versus from to find the radial I was on. 

[FlyDave]

Quote: FlyingAggie

Would you slip your short or mid body Mooney while in IMC?

[DonMuncy]

If you have a gps with a nearest button, the easiest way is to push nearest, and go to "nearest VOR"; read them the distance and bearing.

Don 

[flyboy0681]

I've been trudging through the King Schools IFR prep and all seems to be going well. My only real complaint is that it appears that the videos have not been updated since the early 90's. The few GPS examples that I've seen are of first generation panel units that only displayed coordinates (did people really point there finger at the LAT/LONG on sectionals back in those days?). In addition, LORAN is discussed in detail. Oh yea, Martha's rust colored jump suit is quite dated.

But all in all I'm having a good time and scoring well on the questions.

 

[MooneyMitch]

For me, the King course has been most helpful.  In addition, I've used the 2011 ASA test prep. book and the accompanying FAA "computer testing supplement for instrument rating" booklet. 

ASA's website has an update section which is helpful in providing [hopefully] the latest changes to the knowledge test.  I've also been taking the on line quizes for "instrument airplane" from www.exams4pilots.com.   For the most part, exams4pilots quiz questions/answers align with ASA's info.

Taking the written test this coming Thursday. 

[carusoam]

Flyboy,

The IFR training for the written exam is dated to match the age of the test questions.  Martha's jumpsuit is modern compared to the number of ADF questions you can encounter on the test.

Fortunately IFR flying is much better than the written exam portrays it to be.  The old school still works too...

Best regards,

-a-

[flyboy0681]

I guess it would be asking too much for the FAA to modernize the test.

[fantom]

Quote: flyboy0681

I guess it would be asking too much for the FAA to modernize the test.

[Skybrd]

I recently signed up for a AOPA instrument seminar thats scheduled for June in Bakersfield, Ca. I took one of these courses years ago and learned a lot (much better that self study methods). At the end of the two day course I took the written test and passed with a good score.  Presently, I'm working to refresh my instrument knowledge and trying to improving my instrument skills. I got my instrument rating over 20 years ago but, since then haven't had an airplane with the full IFR instruments. Now that I have a IFR equipped Mooney, I want to use it. Bakersfield, California is located in the San Joaquin valley and has lots of smog and poor visibility. Instrument flying can be a great benfit when the conditions are minimun. If you want to attend the seminar in June or find another location, let me know. I'll let you know the contact number of the school. 

[Skybrd]

The web address for the seminars is http://www.aviationseminars.com/ 

Quote: Skybrd

I recently signed up for a AOPA instrument seminar thats scheduled for June in Bakersfield, Ca. I took one of these courses years ago and learned a lot (much better that self study methods). At the end of the two day course I took the written test and passed with a good score.  Presently, I'm working to refresh my instrument knowledge and trying to improving my instrument skills. I got my instrument rating over 20 years ago but, since then haven't had an airplane with the full IFR instruments. Now that I have a IFR equipped Mooney, I want to use it. Bakersfield, California is located in the San Joaquin valley and has lots of smog and poor visibility. Instrument flying can be a great benfit when the conditions are minimun. If you want to attend the seminar in June or find another location, let me know. I'll let you know the contact number of the school. 

[FlyingAggie]

What makes you think the FAA test needs to be modernized? 

I liked flying back in the 1970's.

I like the questions about contacting the FSS located at the airport after the control tower is closed for airport   advisories!

I also really like Figure 120 in the test supplement.  It is the ILS35R IAP for Denver's Stapleton Airport, which has been closed for over 15 years.

Quote: flyboy0681

I guess it would be asking too much for the FAA to modernize the test.

[carusoam]

One need to update.....

The long questions regarding fuel / distance / time have all been circumnavigated by a simple mnemonic to identify the answer without doing the math......(saves about 15 minutes on the test).  Your class instructor did give you this didn't they????

As a mooney driver, you won't need all of the time that is alotted anyway.....and you do know fuel requirements to your destination and alternate to 1/10 of a gallon right?

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

I think i recall taking the written in 1985 or so and was told they had just updated the written removing questions about the old A N range system which was pre VOR.That meant the written then was 40 or 50 years behind the times.So I guess we can expect questions regarding RNP and Waas approaches on the 2025 0r 2030 version of the instrument written.By then,you wont have to study at all.You will call up King Neuro enhancement Flight Schools and request a Nano enhancement pill for the instrument written,take it 24 hrs before the test and all the answers will suddenly "appear" in your memory...kp couch