Looking to buy my first plane and its a 201J with 3 missing annuals

[bg8810]

Hello everyone, I have been on here reading and gathering info from all you mooniacs for a while and love these planes. I have always wanted to buy one, and now I think is the time as I think I have found a good plane for a decent price. It has not been flown in 3 years due to owner loosing his medical, it has been regularly run on the ground, and everything seems to work on it. Besides an obvious good annual and a A&P to come look at it for a pre buy, would there be anything specific to look for or ask about? The tanks were resealed about 10 years ago, it a 78J model. Thanks for any advice and or info.

[carusoam]

Congrats on your first post BG.

There are plenty to discuss with planes that don't fly often.  There is no substitute for actually flying the plane.  Ground running doesn't do the same thing.

PPI is the best way to protect your wallet.  Buying an active plane is probably the second best way to protect your wallet.

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

Ground running is actually worse than letting the plane sit--it creates moisture without getting the oil hot enough to boil it off.

If the plane sat in a dry climate, it may be okay.  I bought a plane that flew almost none for 4 years that sat in NM, and when we borescoped the cylinders, only trace corrosion, and oil analyses have been reassuring.

Make sure they borescope the cylinders and check the steel frame on the PPI.

I'd want to make sure everything works when the plane is FLYING, not when it is on the ground.  As such, the lack of completed annual would make me nervous.  Remember, nobody can flight test it if it is out of annual.

[Hank]

Non-flying planes are risky. Mine flew 9 hours the two years before I bought her, literally on the bank of the Ohio River. Cold winters with plenty of snow but not much humidity, followed by warm to hot, humid summers. I've had her 10 years with no engine problems. But I would worry about the tanks after sitting for 3 years, and out of annual presents other problems . . .

[Raptor05121]

It sure is a risk. I bought one out of annual by 3 years and dumped $10,000 into it in one go (including resealing the tanks).

If it is in your budget because of the discrepancies, it will end up costing you more in the long run. While my blanket recommendation would be to look at a plane that was flown often, I will say getting a basket case IS PLAUSIBLE if you tread very carefully.

[ArtVandelay]

You'll need to get a ferry permit to fly the plane to wherever you are going to prebuy and annual. Personally I would price the engine as a runout (assume you'll have to overhaul it), moisture left from ground runs with rust out engines and mufflers. Was it hangared?

[75_M20F]

Did they change the oil in it every 4 months or so while the plane was not flying? If that was done then the ground runups (in my opinion) would be helpful. If the oil was not changed in the last three years then expect trouble with the cam and lifters.

 

[gsxrpilot]

The engine on this J is only one of many issues to consider. What year is it? How is it equipped for avionics? What about the paint and interior? And what is the asking price? As others have said, at minimum, it should be priced as a run out engine.

A link to the plane, the N number, or asking price, will get you a lot better advice from the collective here.

[JCD]

I bought a 7 8 201J model two years ago. The previous owner had a lot of work to the airplane the three previous years prior to me buying it.

New paint
New interior
New avionics.

He had lost his medical and instead of flying the airplane he had all the work done to the airplane. It had about 1300 hrs. on the engine and 100 hours on the Prop. I took a gamble and bought the airplane. I paid for the avionics to paint the interior and an air frame that had no major damage history.

I flew the airplane for not quite, eight months and having about 80 hours of flight time on it I lost the engine in the airplane and had to invest another $30,000 putting a new motor in the plane.

So the good news is I have a virtually brand-new 1978 aircraft. The bad news is I had to invest a lot of money to get there.

I would never buy another airplane that had not been flying frequently.

My Mooney was a steppingstone aircraft for me. To build time get my instrument rating and move to a high-performance, complex aircraft. I have done that and my Mooney is now for sale. I have flown a lot and worked all the bugs out of it. But as they say, you get what you pay for.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/18691959/1978-mooney-m20j-201




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[gsxrpilot]

In the three years I've been on MooneySpace, I've made a list of seven members who found a "great buy" on a Mooney only to spend ridiculous dollars immediately after the sale to get the plane airworthy or within the first year of ownership. Try not to join this group. The "great deals", "steals", "barn finds", are rarely as good in the end as they look in the beginning.

[bradp]

There is a very high risk of having a spalled (corroded) camshaft that will require a tear down and overhaul.  If there aren't a lot of engine hours TSMOH, you could plan (i.e. Budget for) removal of the engine and have a shop like Aero Engines of Winchester do an IRAN for a modest cost compared to full OH, but you still may be buying parts at several AMU each.  

The other gotchas risks are based around level of maintenance prior to the last three years and geography. 

 

My loose assosication is as follows.  I let my brother and wife learn how to drive a manual transmission on my car.  It's got over 100k miles on the original clutch. I was expecting to have to replace it at 50k miles.  Life is good but I might have needed to replace the clutch at 15k miles. 

[75_M20F]

"There is no such thing as a cheap airplane".  You're either going to spend the money on the front end of the deal or the back end of the deal.

 

[Yetti]

5 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

A link to the plane, the N number, or asking price, will get you a lot better advice from the collective here.

And budget 10K for after you purchase it to fix things and stuff

[Dream to fly]

I now own the plane that I quote " the Old AP who lost his medical and did all his own repairs and logged everything".  I should be added to that "special" list.  I bought this plane back in December 2016 and it is still in the shop.  If I had known better and found this Forum before I purchased I never would have bought it.  These guys on this forum know their stuff and if you'd like PM me and I will show you 28K of what ifs.  None of it is avionics.  There are no cheap, great, perfect, or fast planes. They all require lots of money and cheap probably wins over fast every time.  Just my .02 

[KLRDMD]

4 hours ago, JCD said:

My Mooney was a steppingstone aircraft for me. To build time get my instrument rating and move to a high-performance, complex aircraft. I have done that and my Mooney is now for sale. 

Whatcha movin' up to ?

[JCD]

Whatcha movin' up to ?

I moved up to a 1968 Piper Comanche.




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[gsxrpilot]

Just now, JCD said:

I moved up to a 1968 Piper Comanche.

Well... you moved, anyway.

[KLRDMD]

Just now, JCD said:

1968 Piper Comanche.

I must have misunderstood, I thought you said you moved up 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, JCD said:

I moved up to a 1968 Piper Comanche.




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Higher, farther, faster, carries more, doesn't leak fuel or corrode.  Good choice!

Clarence

[JCD]

5 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I must have misunderstood, I thought you said you moved up 

Let's see...6 Cylinders, 300lbs more in useful load, 6 Seats, 160 Kts Cruise @ 11.5 GPH ROP......Its a move up to a High Performance Complex aircraft.  I routouinely fly 4 people (2 of which are kids that are 7 and 12 who are growing).  Useful load is a big deal. 

Listen I love my Mooney but the lack of Useful load and the climb performance at airports with High DA (6,000 - 8,000 ft MSL) at max gross will have you puckered for sure.

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, JCD said:

I moved up to a 1968 Piper Comanche.
 

 

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Higher, farther, faster, carries more, doesn't leak fuel or corrode.  Good choice!=

 

Especially if it's a 400.    Zooooooommmm...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

 

 

Especially if it's a 400.    Zooooooommmm...

I looked at both the 260B and 260C before choosing the 400, both are still sound choices.

Clarence

[carusoam]

Sounds like you need an extra set of cylinders to get all the performance.

 

Go Cubes!

-a-

[jgarrison]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:00 PM, bg8810 said:

Hello everyone, I have been on here reading and gathering info from all you mooniacs for a while and love these planes. I have always wanted to buy one, and now I think is the time as I think I have found a good plane for a decent price. It has not been flown in 3 years due to owner loosing his medical, it has been regularly run on the ground, and everything seems to work on it. Besides an obvious good annual and a A&P to come look at it for a pre buy, would there be anything specific to look for or ask about? The tanks were resealed about 10 years ago, it a 78J model. Thanks for any advice and or info.

It is certainly a crapshoot. There are those planes that survive sitting and those that don't. Personally, I would rather have a plane that has a TBO+ engine that has been flying 100 hours a year than an 800 hour engine that has flown 100 hours over the last 7-8 years. I have two planes TBO+ that I would argue for the buyers to do nothing at all to the engines until the engines tell them to do something (falling compressions, oil consumption rising, metal in oil, temperature splits on the engine monitor). It all comes down to the overall plane, what it has and what it is missing. Doing an overhaul prematurely on a plane that is loaded to the gills is not necessarily a bad thing. Nice planes support the value in overhauls. But it helps to plan for it and the best planning you can do is to budget from the start. If you don't see the value in the plane with the potential of an overhaul coming up within a few years, then pass and go to the next plane. 

[peevee]

16 hours ago, JCD said:

 

 the climb performance at airports with High DA (6,000 - 8,000 ft MSL) at max gross will have you puckered for sure.

I have the solution for that...

 

<------

 

 

I think the Comanche is a fine choice also.