1975 Mooney F Operating Cost

[Andreas]

Hey all,

I am looking at purchasing my first Retract, Variable Pitch prop airplane and I am looking for feedback in regards to operating cost...

I live in Canada and will do a lot of Mountain Flying (Rocky Mountains) and was wondering what the true, average operating cost is for a Mooney or Similar.

I've already got my insurance quote which came in at just under CAN$1700/year. Not bad considering all my 300Hr TT is in a Cessna 172..., The quote is subject to 10hr of dual instructions...

I am curious on additional cost... Annual, Engine Reserve, 100hr inspections, etc...

Has anyone experience in operating one out of a grass strip?

Mountain Flying?

I am interested in some current data, not something from 5, 10 or more years ago...

 

Thanks in advance.

Andreas

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Andreas.

Standby for a raft of details coming your direction...

We have members that have Mooney's that live on grass fields.  One of our members has been flying into the outback with the big tire/ long prop kind of people...

Costs are generally measured in AMUs big pieces of cash with ,000.00 on the end...

a tie down outside can be less than 2AMU. Per year...

your insurance is less than 2AMU.  Per year...

an annual can be 2AMU. As long as nothing needs repair and replacement.  Per year...

add another 2AMU for stuff you want to have added.  Each year...

fuel use is generally less than 10gph for the A-J crowd.

Plan on doing finance calculations using around 100hours per year.  A common number used around here, until you know your situation better...

know the first year you probably want to acquire a lot of things...

Hope that helps you get started.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 11, 2017 by carusoam

[Shadrach]

With no engine reserves included, my 67 F usually falls between $100 and $130 an hour at 100hrs a year.  The more I fly, the cheaper it gets!... ;-)

[Andreas]

All great info guys... thanks...

Just to be clear, I never actually owned my own airplane... been renting until now....

[ArtVandelay]

Call the local airport(s), ask about hangars, pretty sure you'll want to hangar it. That can be a substantial expense.

[Bartman]

I have found that if you use your Mooney to trave , then the expenses at the destination can easily exceed the cost to fly. 

Double what everyone else says

[M20F]

Most expensive year @$25k, least expensive @$1000.  The cost of operation is very inexpensive, until it isn't.   Just expect a $25-30k year at some point and you will be fine   

Personally I wouldn't long term operate a Mooney out of a grass strip.  Low prop clearance, low gear doors, hard on pucks, causes tank epoxy to warp and crack.  Solely my opinion.  Everyone else will be along to tell you the Mooney is the best back country flyer there is. 

I would be looking at a 182. 

[Guitarmaster]

With engine reserve, I'm about $90 an hour ish. I fly between 50 and 100 hours a year.
I do all my own maintenance, so it makes it considerably cheap-er.
You will eventually have a major expense. Plan for it. Expect to be able to handle a surprise $3000 bill if you have to. If you can't do that, you can't afford an airplane.
Love my '75F, but it is not a Backcountry airplane even though some use it that way. The plane was made for one thing and it does it very well... Cross country flying.

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[Guitarmaster]

I almost forgot...

 

Airplane ownership can quickly become an addiction. There is always something to upgrade! Just ask @Maurader.

 

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[Guitarmaster]

I can't believe you guys actually calculate your hourly expenses!

Purely for entertainment purposes only.

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[1964-M20E]

Andres

Operating out of a grass strip is not that big of a deal.  I base mine on a grass strip and they are my softest landings.  When you really figure it out less than half of my landings are on grass strips because when I go somewhere it is always a paved strip at least so far.  You may experience some extra wear on things and the plane stays dirtier that on paved strips.

AS for the costs many here including myself have made extensive spreadsheets to calculate the cost of ownership.  If you fly the plane 60 to 100 hours a year overall the cost will be about $125 to $150 an hour to operate all in cost.

What does it cost you to operate your car?  You most likely do not know.

Hangar, insurance and basic annual inspection are the fixed cost after these I close my eyes and say it cost me fuel to get there just like you do with your car and even your house.

[RobertGary1]

It's so variable. One year I had an engine failure at 1000SFNEW on my engine. In that case you don't have a core so the engine ended up costing Over $40,000 with mandatory overhaul of prop, gov, oil cooler because of the amount of metal produced. Plus $20,000 core charger on top of that  

Don't assume a standard overhaul is worst case

-Robert

Edited March 12, 2017 by RobertGary1

[Sean S]

I budget 12k USD a year. I just took my fixed expenses plus figured I would average 60 hours a year. At that budget it is $124 USD an hour total, fixed and variable expenses. When my insurance goes down next year due to experience, I will be able to fly more hours for the same 12k, and my per hour cost will go down as my flight hours go up. I hold an A and P as well and can do most of my own work. If I run out of the 12k before the year is up, no flying.

[Marauder]

The biggest costs to operating an F (or any Mooney for that matter) are the TOTAL cost associated with flying. When people are quoting low hourly operating costs they may not be capturing all of the costs. Think of ownership as an all in endeavor. If you didn't own an airplane would you be spending the money?

Some people who don't plan on owning the plane to TBO won't reserve for the engine overhaul. They expect either to accept the depreciated value or hoping for an increase in market value. Others don't reserve for avionics maintenance or upgrades and when a radio dies and they are faced with a $4k bill to replace. I personally count everything in the total. When you do that, you'll get a value closer to what it costs to operate an airplane.

Here are a list of things to factor into an operating cost per hour. I put my numbers into it from last year to give you a ballpark.

Insurance $1,100
Hangar $4,350
Avionics databases $1,050
Annual $4,200
Oil changes + adding oil $370
Unexpected maintenance $1,400
Fuel $6,860
Engine reserve $17/hr
Avionics reserves & maintenance $20/hr
Upgrades $1,500 (LEDs)

I flew 133 hours last year. The total above was $25,751 which equates to $193 per hour. My annual was higher than normal but even if it came in at $3k, the hourly rate is down to $184.

You can lower these if defer upgrades and don't add in reserves. If I do that, my hourly rate goes to $145. But since I am keeping my plane I factor them in.

Hope this helps.


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[Andy95W]

1.) Figure out how much you can afford to spend per year.

2.) Figure out how much you can get by your wife.

The second number is your annual operating cost.

[air cooled dad]

My plane was cheap...  

until I decided that I wanted a JPI830.  Then I installed a Garmin G5.  Now I want to do my interior.  Plus I'm very interested in the Trutrack autopilot.  $$$$$$. 

Jason

Ps.  I may buy the turbo normalizer as well.  Can't spend my money when I'm pushing up daisies!!!!  

Edited March 12, 2017 by air cooled dad

[cnoe]

Avionics reserves & maintenance $20/hr

Upgrades $1,500 (LEDs)

These numbers will never be approved by the CB Club review board.

The avionics reserve may be reasonable for your beautiful panel, but mine's well under $10/hr.

And upgrades are discretionary spending that I keep independent of hourly costs.

When I fly somewhere with a buddy who insists on sharing costs I quote $75/hr in my J. Averaging ~175 hrs a year helps keep that number low.


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[Danb]

Chris your so depressing. Being an accountant I have an easier way, I don't calculate what it costs,have owned 4 planes, of which 3 were Mooneys and honestly don't know nor want to know the costs.  This is a depressing thread.

[FloridaMan]

Fixed costs are <$10,000 yr (usually) for me, and that includes $6,000 for hangar rent. Before buying my Mooney, I'd spend $800/mo renting an airplane to see how it felt. When I was comfortable with that expense, I bought a plane. Just make sure to inspect the spar and get a decent prepurchase inspection. 

[Yetti]

hanger $3K

Annual $750 Includes a 100 hour prop feel down and 4 new spark plugs

Insurance $1K

Oil and Filters $230  100 hours flown/ changed oil at 25 hours

Have a $2000 brand new cylinder sitting in the box ready to go.  Probably need to put it on #4

Gas is a variable.

Going 160 knots with a tail wind will put a priceless grin on your face.

 

[Andy95W]

28 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Same here. I'll admit I am a little surprised so many people here actually track their expenses, much less calculate them hourly. It costs what it costs. I'd honestly rather not know and I certainly don't want my wife to.  

+1

[FloridaMan]

Also, I have flown in and out of grass strips a number of times, and I've landed my Mooney in an overgrown runoff field when my engine quit on takeoff. The M20F performs very well as an offroad vehicle. I touched at probably 90mph, dropped a number of terraces; the field was covered in 4ft weeds that were higher than the wings and the landing gear held. 

[Marauder]

Chris your so depressing. Being an accountant I have an easier way, I don't calculate what it costs,have owned 4 planes, of which 3 were Mooneys and honestly don't know nor want to know the costs.  This is a depressing thread.

It should be depressing. Flying is EXPENSIVE!! For those with enough disposable income the costs may not be a factor. Then again, it could be a reason AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome) exists. How many times do we read of someone buying a Mooney and then get in over their head with the cost of owning a plane? I think it is a disservice for those folks who need to live within a budget to sugarcoat what to expect.

I hope it also has some people who are on the fence about sole ownership to look at partnerships instead of going into the deep end by themselves. Or just defer the decision to buy until they are in a better financial situation.


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[Andreas]

Thanks for all the great info guys...

reason I am looking to get as much info as possible is due to the fact that I have a limited income... I feel that some people on here don't have that problem and are able to spend, well, what ever it cost and don't really have to worry.

Also, the plane I was looking at was priced at CAN$60K with 3000Hr Total Time and 350Hr SMOH on a IO360 Engine, Prop has 10Hr Since Overhaul.

Any comments on the price?
 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Andreas

[larryb]

$30,000 per year. And a person should be able to come up with $50,000 on a moments notice if something goes wrong with it. If you can't handle that, well....

That said a nice used Mooney costs no more to purchase than a nice luxury car. It costs less than a nice RV. And the yearly operating cost is no more than private school tuition for a couple of kids. And it's less than a year at college these days. 

Another thing to keep in mind is it costs the same to operate a 75F as an 86J. Over time the operating cost dwarfs the purchase price. It doesn't make a lot of financial sense looking at the cheapest planes out there.

Larry