CIES Fuel Sender 337 submittal example

[kortopates]

Since Scott's CIES Fuel senders STC is not yet approved by the FAA, I am hoping another Mooney out there that has submitted/approved field approval 337 is willing to share?

Ideally a J or K, but any Mooney is helpful in getting through the process with a previously approved example. 

Thanks!

[fuellevel]

Since my meeting with the FAA lightning expert and my test setup - wheels are moving 

Some may say that I used a little electrical persuasion to help motivate the FAA.  

This STC covers JPI , Electronics International & Garmin Interfaces 

It also includes Aerospace Logic Resistance Gauges  and Rochester Gauges Analog FQ4XXX Series

The Aerospace Logic Digital Gauges for Digital input are already STC approved  for Aerospace Logic Display and CiES TSO fuel senders

 

These are the best 337's I have to date 

FAA337_FuelSender.pdf

Fuel Sender Field Approval 337 Back.pdf

Fuel Sender Field Approval 337 Front.pdf

[kortopates]

Thanks for the 337's Scott. Hopefully one of the Mooney's that went through this recently will have one too. But if not the Cardinal and Bonanza examples should do the job. 

Or maybe we'll get lucky and you'll get FAA signature approval in few days!

Edited February 24, 2017 by kortopates

[gsxrpilot]

I was hoping this thread was because you were posting YOUR 337.  I'm having the Cies senders installed in my K as well and am hoping you're a little ahead of me and I can just copy your paperwork 

[kortopates]

Hopefully I'll have an approved 337 form before long in which case I'll be happy to share with you. My new panel install has been dragging on for a long long time. 

[gsxrpilot]

Yeah, and I've got this little spar corrosion issues slowing me down as well.  But the DER has prescribed the first steps and work will commence on Saturday. So fingers crossed...

[carusoam]

Scott,  

did you offer to put a cup of fuel on the back side of the lightning demonstration stand?

Or were they accepting your results without any fuel vapor being nearby?

Was the purpose of the lightning strike to demonstrate that the floats are still working after the strike?

 

Wondering what the FAA was asking you to demonstrate.  

I would like to know the faraday ice pail theory of a mostly all metal plane actually applies.  I've never experienced a lightning strike.  I'm going to actively keep trying to avoid them...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[fuellevel]

The lightning issue wasn't an induced current in the wires or a direct strike attachment, it was an induced effect or a transitional effect.    So the test was intended to demonstrate that an induced charge applied to any part of the sender would dissipate to ground without causing a arc.

The issue becomes a balance between corrosion protection and the ability to carry a significant current.     

In the testing, I demonstrated that existing sender designs had significant internal arcing, but it isn't a strong argument to say we are just as potentially dangerous.     So we showed that despite the mil-std anodize and the teflon hardcoat, the sender could carry surface charges to ground, as long as the sender is bolted to the aircraft.   Subtle details in the manner we assemble the sender, that were not obvious, made that possible.  

So not an obvious regulation but falls under 23.1301 as not creating a hazard.    

The fuel idea would have punctuated the meeting.   

[NotarPilot]

Scott, I was planning on getting a pair of your digital senders for an Aerospace Logic FL202D soon but I'm a little confused, is it STC'D with a 202D or am I going to need a field approval regardless?

[NotarPilot]

10 hours ago, kortopates said:

Since Scott's CIES Fuel senders STC is not yet approved by the FAA, I am hoping another Mooney out there that has submitted/approved field approval 337 is willing to share?

Ideally a J or K, but any Mooney is helpful in getting through the process with a previously approved example. 

Thanks!

What are you going to use to display your fuel values?

Steve

[StevenL757]

I will look through my documentation later today regarding the CIES fuel senders I had installed last year and see if I can get these for us to review if it helps.  Bear with me...I have several meetings today, but will make a point of getting these today.

Regards, Steve

[thinwing]

16 hours ago, fuellevel said:

Since my meeting with the FAA lightning expert and my test setup - wheels are moving 

Some may say that I used a little electrical persuasion to help motivate the FAA.  

This STC covers JPI , Electronics International & Garmin Interfaces 

It also includes Aerospace Logic Resistance Gauges  and Rochester Gauges Analog FQ4XXX Series

The Aerospace Logic Digital Gauges for Digital input are already STC approved  for Aerospace Logic Display and CiES TSO fuel senders

 

These are the best 337's I have to date 

FAA337_FuelSender.pdf

Fuel Sender Field Approval 337 Back.pdf

Fuel Sender Field Approval 337 Front.pdf

Hi there..that little black box..is that generating high ac or dc voltage?Also what voltage?l am needing a power supply for a Crooks railway tube...thanks 

[fuellevel]

7 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

Scott, I was planning on getting a pair of your digital senders for an Aerospace Logic FL202D soon but I'm a little confused, is it STC'D with a 202D or am I going to need a field approval regardless?

Notarpilot:  It is FAA STC Approved for the FL202D  and CiES TSO Senders through STC SA02825NY.

So Transport Canada was watching the certification process from the sidelines as they were also interested in getting better technology available for measuring fuel.  Transport Canada and the Transportation Safety Board of Canada has petitioned the FAA to do something about fuel sending in aircraft.   Unlike investigations in the US, Transport Canada reviews the fuel quantity system on fuel starved or fuel exhausted aircraft.  They,  Canadians, point to a correlation between bad fuel indication and bad fuel performance  ( A re hash of last years epic posting)  as a strong majority of those accident aircraft have bad or non functional fuel indication.   Transport Canada's and other countries petitions  to the FAA have gone un-responded. 

Spoiler Alert:  Yes I know some of you believe that fuel indication in the aircraft  has absolutely nothing to do with running out of fuel.   Yes I hear that expressed quite frequently.    

So Transport Canada was instrumental in the initial TSO certification of our sender and witnessed the DO-160 Environmental tests (vs, a having a USA FAA DER do the witnessing).  Transport Canada saw the fuel sending unit first hand perform in the lab.  Equally, just for fun, we tested a resistive new sender side by side.   It was dramatically different.   

So when Transport Canada found out we were going after a AML STC they were fully on board and cheering on the sidelines,  Transport Canada asked and were being copied on all correspondence with the FAA both Small Aircraft Directorate and Seattle .   Sometime in the Fall after reviewing the roadblocks the FAA was throwing in front of the project, like the obscure lightning induced effect, and the 55,000 ft altitude,  Transport Canada decided to act on their own.    For background,  Lightning induced effect is prevalent at the Seattle ACO as they just went through the Boeing 787 composite wing certification and it was a topical subject. 

Transport Canada was aware that the Aerospace Logic Canadian STC which was accepted and given a US STC number had the following wording on the face copy of the STC "OR LATER TRANSPORT CANADA APPROVAL"    So just to give the FAA a thumb firmly to the nose - they provided the "OR LATER TRANSPORT CANADA APPROVAL"  unfortunately they could only do it for the Canadian Aerospace Logic units.    

Our STC will cover JPI, EI, Analog Input Aerospace Logic & some pure OEM analog gauges for most US Aircraft.    It should be done next week, but I have been here before. 

[fuellevel]

It was a 20KV ion Generator - DC Voltage.   Nothing like a dog and pony show to illustrate a point. 

 

http://www.amazing1.com/products/negative-ion-generator-12vdc-input-20kv-output.html

[thinwing]

Thankyou

[kortopates]

9 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

What are you going to use to display your fuel values?

Steve

I am using the EDM-900 with the CIES using their frequency output. 

[StevenL757]

My 337 for the CIES...

[StevenL757]

6 hours ago, kortopates said:

I am using the EDM-900 with the CIES using their frequency output. 

Ditto here, with +5v output.

[kortopates]

8 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

My 337 for the CIES...

Thank you very much Steven. Your approved Mooney 337 really helps!

[Emmet]

9 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Ditto here, with +5v output.

I thought the EDM 900 doesn't have a frequency input?

Edited February 25, 2017 by Emmet

[fuellevel]

It does now.   A recent update to the EDM 900 and it is retrofittable

 

[carusoam]

Stand by for government intrusion...

New York has noticed a rash of airplane accidents recently.  They are going to study the causes to see if something odd is happening.

They will probably find, oddly enough, human beings are piloting the aircraft.

one of the aircraft accidents they showed was a nice tail dragger sitting in an open field, updamaged...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 16, 2017 by carusoam