AOPA - To renew or not?

[HRM]

17 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I'm in the EAA simply because its the only local club that does anything. You never hear of AOPA Chapters at every airport. Lunches, fly-outs, etc are what I like. My EAA club are composed 50/50 with certified and homebuilt pilots.

Yes, it's a club for homebuilder's, who are hobbyists. It satisfies a need and craving even in certified AC owner's, enjoy--but don't confuse it with the issues.

[PTK]

I don't think anyone would argue that this guy is very very very sick and needs to seek treatment.

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/former-johns-hopkins-chief-of-psychiatry-destroys-caitlyn-jenner-must-read/

Sure came a long way from selling wheaties!

[gsxrpilot]

I'm an AOPA member... and sometimes I remember why.  But I'm an EAA member for the ability to participate in the Young Eagles program.  There is nothing quite as enjoyable as introducing a kid to flight for the first time.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm an AOPA member... and sometimes I remember why.  But I'm an EAA member for the ability to participate in the Young Eagles program.  There is nothing quite as enjoyable as introducing a kid to flight for the first time.

Yep, that's the biggest reason I had for joining EAA, too.

[XXX]

14 hours ago, Tom said:

The irony continues. You are in the minority on the LGBT issue trying to push your minority views onto the majority.  And what is "normal?"  It is just as normal for Jenner to be transgender as it is for someone from Florida to be against supporting the equal rights of American citizens--not the norm but not uncommon.

AOPA advocates for the rights of all Americans to fly.  Everyone who isn't a threat to themselves or others, anyone who wouldn't infringe on the basic rights of someone else.  This is precisely their mission. For that matter I find it an unfortunate waste of resources that AOPA should have to spend money convincing humans to be more human instead of convincing government agencies to do the right thing.

 

 

Tom,  Where do you find me trying to push my view? I didn't start the post, just chiming in about my choice to renew or not and why.  So settle down my friend.  I think I'm beginning to agree with you on the importance of membership anyway.  Our opinions differ and the ability to debate them is a freedom that hopefully won't go away but this is not the proper venue for that.

[HRM]

...and over here gentlemen, you see our segue into the bizarre. I know, you thought this thread was about why a pilot would want to join, or stay enjoined, to the AOPA. Well, this is how things go around here. We begin with the benign and end with the abnormal.

[Marauder]

7 minutes ago, HRM said:

...and over here gentlemen, you see our segue into the bizarre. I know, you thought this thread was about why a pilot would want to join, or stay enjoined, to the AOPA. Well, this is how things go around here. We begin with the benign and end with the abnormal.

At least a fat woman looking like a man didn't show up in the thread.

[aviatoreb]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

At least a fat woman looking like a man didn't show up in the thread.

Don't anyone respond to this - please - no one.  It will only encourage him.

[Marauder]

I stand corrected

 

[HRM]

Just now, Marauder said:

I stand corrected

Ok, we're done here.

[Sabremech]

Just a few thoughts on MY perception of AOPA. It's a wealthy mans club. I feel they market to the wealthy owners and pilots. I don't think they have the interest in an airplane owner who owns a $40K airplane other than the dues. On the other hand, this is exactly what I find appealing about the EAA. They market to me, for me and have benefits for my membership that I use. I have a blast camping at Airventure for 10 days and being immersed in all things aviation including getting together with friends and family from around the world.

 Now I don't know what AOPA can do to change my perception of their organization, but I'm not going to just hand over dues because it's someone's opinion that it's the right thing to do for GA. Show me and prove to me what you're doing with my dues other than jetting around in the CJ3.

[Danb]

17 hours ago, Marauder said:

At least a fat woman looking like a man didn't show up in the thread.

Yet

 

[Danb]

Brad, I'm indifferent to this thread being a member of both the EAA & Aopa , the one thing that is quite sorry is the extreme wages among the section 501-C(3) community. I've audited quite a few not for profit organizations in my tour and your correct in the appalling overhead especially wages among those executives entrusted with providing the services of which they were granted by the Treasury Dept. (IRS).   'Nuff said.

[FlyDave]

On May 20, 2016 at 2:10 PM, cnoe said:

I don't mind paying for the yearly AOPA membership; the online safety courses/videos/etc. make it worthwhile. And I believe they're trying hard to pass the 3rd class medical reform.

But... I DO grow weary of the constant barrage of solicitations for donations to their PAC. I call, write, and sign petitions to my representatives but I don't believe in "paying off" my congressmen/congresswomen to pass sensible legislation. Call me naive. I shouldn't have to outbid the opponents of GA in order to fly.

And it bothers me more than just a little that there is NO accounting of which politician receives the AOPA PAC money. I fear that they'd be getting my money in spite of the fact that I may disagree with 90% of their other political agendas.

One last thing, the EAA got the STC for putting inexpensive backup instrumentation in legacy GA aircraft, and for that alone I became an EAA member last month for the first time ever! When I can put an awesome and affordable panel in my Mooney like those in the Vans fleet I'll reconsider who deserves my money more, AOPA or EAA.

Very well said and I agree wholeheartedly!

[FlyDave]

20 minutes ago, Danb said:

Brad, I'm indifferent to this thread being a member of both the EAA & Aopa , the one thing that is quite sorry is the extreme wages among the section 501-C(3) community. I've audited quite a few not for profit organizations in my tour and your correct in the appalling overhead especially wages among those executives entrusted with providing the services of which they were granted by the Treasury Dept. (IRS).   'Nuff said.

Dan,

Nice to hear from a beancounter with experience in these organizations. 

This is a MAJOR gripe of mine with AOPA. I think the previous president of AOPA was between $700k and $900k in annual compensation, all in. They won't release the current payout for executives....hmmmm, something to hide? Yet they are constantly sending emails asking for money - sometime twice a week. The only thing that comes to mind when I get these emails is FUCK THEM!!!!!

Dave

[Jerry 5TJ]

It's no secret: As a U.S. based not-for-profit AOPA is required to file an IRS form 990 which is public information. 

Search for "AOPA 990" and you'll find the filings.  The most recent I find is for 2014.  The top officers' & directors' compensations are listed.  

Baker received about $780K that year.  There are about 350,000 members.  About $2 of each member's dues goes to the president's compensation. 

 

 

[FlyDave]

20 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

It's no secret: As a U.S. based not-for-profit AOPA is required to file an IRS form 990 which is public information. 

Search for "AOPA 990" and you'll find the filings.  The most recent I find is for 2014.  The top officers' & directors' compensations are listed.  

Baker received about $780K that year.  There are about 350,000 members.  About $2 of each member's dues goes to the president's compensation. 

 

As far as I'm concerned that's about $1.15 per member more than I'm willing to pay them - and that was 2 years ago. The organization may be listed as non-profit but it isn't exactly non-profit for the top officers and directors.

Why was EAA the driving force behind getting the Dynon products STC'ed? Why would EAA care about the certified market? It seems they really do support GA - all of GA and not just their members.

AOPA was working on the part 23 re-org which had language to allow certified airplanes to install the same avionics that experimental's can - what happened to that language? GONE like a fart in the wind.....

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, Sabremech said:

Just a few thoughts on MY perception of AOPA. It's a wealthy mans club. I feel they market to the wealthy owners and pilots....

I chair my village oversight of the airport committee.  KPTD is a village of Potsdam resource and responsibility.  There is a strong local sentiment that the airport is a wealthy man's club.  Way up here in rural upstate NY with a high level of poverty and long distances to any cities, that is the perception.  There are wealthy people there, who come and go, but those wealthy people are part of the economy too.  The good parts of the economy because they are the ones come and invest big dollars in the local economy.  When I see a citation on the ramp, I don't think jealously of who are those upstarts coming to town.  I think great, some local business activity is here ongoing - I wonder what it is.  As for the locals with planes, mostly they are beat up old pipers and 172s, and I mean ooooold and beat up.  Besides those rich 172 owners, the airport serves as a vital daily link for UPS that EVERYONE in town enjoys, and the local med lift company flies a Pilatus on something like 200 missions a year since there is no major hospital nearby, and if you ride on that baby, you are having a bad day but it is saved many people's lives.  So we all enjoy it as a backup to not having a major hospital anywhere within 2.5 hrs drive (Syracuse).

I have always known that GA has an image problem when people call it a rich man's organization, but I see the problem is pretty deep if even amongst us SE piston pilots, there is a poor-man rich man syndrome going on.

Advocacy and Lobbying are exactly what GA needs on Capital Hill, and in the public.  Both EAA and AOPA serve in this role, but not identically.  I support both. 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

It's no secret: As a U.S. based not-for-profit AOPA is required to file an IRS form 990 which is public information. 

Search for "AOPA 990" and you'll find the filings.  The most recent I find is for 2014.  The top officers' & directors' compensations are listed.  

Baker received about $780K that year.  There are about 350,000 members.  About $2 of each member's dues goes to the president's compensation. 

I am curious. What do the CEOs of other major more clearly non-profits make.  Red Cross?  UNISEF? Mother's against drunk driving?  I have no idea - just curious.

Now the NRA CEO - I bet that guy makes a salary.

[FlyDave]

Another thought on this topic....

GA has been shrinking for many years. I believe that this is due in large part the the costs associated with flying. Fuel, maintenance, hangar/storage all contribute to these costs. But another aspect is avionics.

Young people look at an older plane with steam gauges and think, Man, I don't want to fly this (no offense intended to any of us that are still flying steam gauges - like me). They look at a newer panel with a Dynon Skyview or a G500 and like the modernity they see. But there aren't very many trainers with glass panels - just as there aren't that many of our planes with glass. If flight schools could install glass panels affordably I think they could attract more new young pilots. Fact is we're getting older (well, I can't speak for everyone but...) and in another 20 years the number of people flying GA airplanes will probably be halved again.

Making GA more affordable is what needs to happen to reinvigorate GA and the pool of potential pilots. EAA has started this process with the Dynon STC's - with more coming. The Garmin guy was visibly shaken when interviewed at Sun 'n Fun about the EAA/Dynon announcement. I'm sure Garmin has done market analysis ad nauseum on how they can keep their profits up but in another 20 years or less their market will be halved. What happens then?

If Mark Baker really cared about GA (and not just his fucking salary!!) AOPA would have been working with Dynon up front and not let EAA take the lead.

[Danb]

As Jerry stated the income of those earning over $100,000 in total compensation should be recorded on the form 990 maybe Sch. A. according to the FOIA the information is available to the public. Like I stated I'm neutral regarding the Aopa and EAA but despise N-F-P's greed in regard to using the publics funds for inordinate corporate greed. Generally the 990's are a couple yrs behind although most organizations publish there financials on a yearly basis usually  to acquire additional funding.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, FlyDave said:

...I'm sure Garmin has done market analysis ad nauseum on how they can keep their profits up but in another 20 years or less their market will be halved. What happens then?

Quite right.  Someday - there will be no more GA.  Maybe in 20 years.  Maybe in 40 years.  Someday there may be google car quadcopters that require no human interaction.

Will Garmin survive?  Will Lycoming survive?  Will Mooney survive?

Classic paper by Levitt about the failing of the BEST Buggy Whip companies to changing demands. "If a buggy whip manufacturer in 1910 defined its business as the "transportation starter business," they might have been able to make the creative leap necessary to move into the automobile business when technological change demanded it"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_myopia

 

[Bob_Belville]

This thread brought out a few CBers. I think I spend more money putting a little gas in borrowed crew cars than my AOPA/MAPA/EAA dues cost me. My motives for both are similar.

AOPA 00393927 EAA 1131501 MAPA 1152

[201er]

4 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Baker received about $780K that year.  There are about 350,000 members.  About $2 of each member's dues goes to the president's compensation. 

No wonder he raised the dues

[Sabremech]

3 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I chair my village oversight of the airport committee.  KPTD is a village of Potsdam resource and responsibility.  There is a strong local sentiment that the airport is a wealthy man's club.  Way up here in rural upstate NY with a high level of poverty and long distances to any cities, that is the perception.  There are wealthy people there, who come and go, but those wealthy people are part of the economy too.  The good parts of the economy because they are the ones come and invest big dollars in the local economy.  When I see a citation on the ramp, I don't think jealously of who are those upstarts coming to town.  I think great, some local business activity is here ongoing - I wonder what it is.  As for the locals with planes, mostly they are beat up old pipers and 172s, and I mean ooooold and beat up.  Besides those rich 172 owners, the airport serves as a vital daily link for UPS that EVERYONE in town enjoys, and the local med lift company flies a Pilatus on something like 200 missions a year since there is no major hospital nearby, and if you ride on that baby, you are having a bad day but it is saved many people's lives.  So we all enjoy it as a backup to not having a major hospital anywhere within 2.5 hrs drive (Syracuse).

I have always known that GA has an image problem when people call it a rich man's organization, but I see the problem is pretty deep if even amongst us SE piston pilots, there is a poor-man rich man syndrome going on.

Advocacy and Lobbying are exactly what GA needs on Capital Hill, and in the public.  Both EAA and AOPA serve in this role, but not identically.  I support both. 

You completely missed my perception. Your story is a fine one that I've heard countless times before, but I'm scratching my head with what it has to due with AOPA?