Panel Upgrade - Week 1

[StevenL757]

So, finally kicked off the big upgrade this past Monday.  A few pics from end of week 1...after my nerves calmed a bit.

Seriously, these guys are the best.  Very happy with the first week's progress.  Antennas from left...GA37 (GTN750 and GDL69), GA36 (future GTN650), and NGT-9000 Lynx WAAS antenna.  Also added the Skywatch antenna to use the "+" feature of the Lynx's TAS/TCAS feature.  More after end of week 2 next Friday.

 

 

[Marauder]

This is a sympathy post. Many of us have been there:

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[StevenL757]

Yeah.  Figured.  :-)

[Ftlausa]

Mine is going in for a major panel upgrade next month.  After seeing these pictures, I am not sure I want to see my panel during the process.  I think it would make my stomach churn. 

[Marauder]

Mine is going in for a major panel upgrade next month.  After seeing these pictures, I am not sure I want to see my panel during the process.  I think it would make my stomach churn. 

It does make your stomach churn, especially when they have wires left over.

Here is a semi-finished product. Don't despair they will eventually get it all back together again.

[StevenL757]

Beautiful.  Did you get syn vis and/or AOA with the Aspen?

[Marauder]

Beautiful.  Did you get syn vis and/or AOA with the Aspen?

No SVT but was would like to see one in action. I have the terrain display capability on both the GTN and the Aspen. Not sure how more it would buy me for the east coast flying I do.

I have an AOA already in the plane (vane type). If it wasn't so expensive I might consider it.

[Bob_Belville]

[carusoam]

Grizzly carnage...

Thanks for not making it look really easy.

best regards,

-a-

 

[Glenn]

What could possibly go wrong?

[Bob_Belville]

13 minutes ago, Glenn said:

What could possibly go wrong?

Glenn, gotta love 50 AMU panels in 50 year old Mooneys with Johnson Bars. Got a pic of the after? 

[Marauder]

13 minutes ago, Glenn said: What could possibly go wrong?

Glenn, gotta love 50 AMU panels in 50 year old Mooneys with Johnson Bars. Got a pic of the after? 

When you wrote it makes me wonder if we aren't actually the cast of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".

[StevenL757]

Thanks everyone for sharing those...I feel like I'm now part of a large "A-A" group of sorts...

"My name's Steve, and I'm a Panel-holic and a compulsive flyer..."

Nerves successfully calmed.  :-)

[Glenn]

8 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Glenn, gotta love 50 AMU panels in 50 year old Mooneys with Johnson Bars. Got a pic of the after? 

Yesterday I was talking to a Comanche owner with a similar addiction.  We agreed it can no longer be called an investment. It is the price that we are willing to pay for the enjoyment.

[StevenL757]

Yeah.  My wife "wised up" and no longer accepts the investment argument...  :-)

Hey - I'm curious...what was the thought behind not putting both 430s and the transponder in the center stack and moving the panel dock and 496 to the right?  I'd have thought you'd want all your IFR-certified stuff in one location, making your scan easier...?

Steve

[Glenn]

On 4/26/2016 at 11:42 AM, StevenL757 said:

Yeah.  My wife "wised up" and no longer accepts the investment argument...  :-)

Hey - I'm curious...what was the thought behind not putting both 430s and the transponder in the center stack and moving the panel dock and 496 to the right?  I'd have thought you'd want all your IFR-certified stuff in one location, making your scan easier...?

Steve

I put the items to which I most often refer to the left.  Once in flight the transponder gets little attention and the #2 430W is primary for traffic.  In weather I look at the 496 a lot and the autopilot being right over the throttle is handy.  Additionally two 430s and the transponder make for a tight fit depth-wise at the top of the stack, if all were in the center.  The top 430 would interfere with the structural tubes.

[StevenL757]

4 hours ago, Glenn said:

I put the items to which I most often refer to the left.  Once in flight the transponder gets little attention and the #2 430W is primary for traffic.  In weather I look at the 496 a lot and the autopilot being right over the throttle is handy.  Additionally two 430s and the transponder make for a tight fit depth-wise at the top of the stack, if all were in the center.  The top 430 would interfere with the structural tubes.

Ah...good point.  Wasn't sure of the height of your panel and the structure in behind that, so that makes sense.  Either way, very nice layout in general.

[Aerodon]

On April 24, 2016 at 6:18 PM, StevenL757 said:

So, finally kicked off the big upgrade this past Monday.  A few pics from end of week 1...after my nerves calmed a bit.

Seriously, these guys are the best.  Very happy with the first week's progress.  Antennas from left...GA37 (GTN750 and GDL69), GA36 (future GTN650), and NGT-9000 Lynx WAAS antenna.  Also added the Skywatch antenna to use the "+" feature of the Lynx's TAS/TCAS feature.  More after end of week 2 next Friday.

 

On April 24, 2016 at 6:18 PM, StevenL757 said:

 

 

 

Hate to be a spoiler, but i think there are limitations or at least recommendations on how close GPS antennas can be?

 

Don

[KSMooniac]

4 minutes ago, Aerodon said:

Hate to be a spoiler, but i think there are limitations or at least recommendations on how close GPS antennas can be?

Don

There are, and the instructions are often not followed.  This can lead to interference issues sufficient to blank both GPS signals.

[StevenL757]

Yeah, you're both correct, and honestly, I was a bit concerned.  I read the Garmin antenna install doc about this and raised this to my shop.  I came in at the end of the first week and they'd already mounted these - earlier than I figured.  Questioned the positions, and they assured me that they've done this layout on Mooneys and other aircraft many times prior with no issues noted.  I cross-checked with my mechanic who also assured me that I'd be hard-pressed to experience any issues, and that as these antennas only receive, the likelihood of anything "violating" the 5-degree slant angle or causing shadowing was remote at best given the above config.  To play it safe, I had the Lynx WAAS moved to the middle position and the GA36 moved to the front position.  I left the GA37 in the back, more than the recommended 2 feet from the rear COM blade.

I guess what surprises me is that the Garmin-owned Ovation has its antennas mounted in a line and even closer than mine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y61sBt-t4yg), as do a few other aircraft I've noticed in videos, publications, etc.  Not saying it justifies going against recommendations, but did give me pause.  Interested to hear others' experiences with antenna positioning and any operational issues.  Any thoughts?

 

[carusoam]

Steven,

When the G530s and G430s first came out a number of Mooney owners had problems with antennas and their locations.  I believe the interference caused both navigators to not work in certain geographic locations. It was troubling for a while... We learned a fair amount reading about antenna location and grounding planes.

GPS signals are so low power, they are easy to interfere with.

Since then, new GTN equipment and antennae will be a world of difference...

you may find some of the discussions on MS going back to the early days.

Looking forward to the next round of pictures,

-a-

[StevenL757]

Thanks Anthony.  Out of admitted paranoia, I ran this by the Garmin Gurus, and it was confirmed the positions would not be a problem, citing testing since the 2009 guidelines came out, and equipment advancements (like the 750, etc.).  We'll obviously test, draw some conclusions, and learn more from the experience.

Not really much to post this week...running lots of harnesses, cable bundling, terminating ends, and working to get the first lexan panel cut.  We'll dry-fit to see if everything fits as originally planned, and if all fits well, get the metal one cut.  Hopefully some more "panel porn" after this Friday.

[Marauder]

30 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Thanks Anthony.  Out of admitted paranoia, I ran this by the Garmin Gurus, and it was confirmed the positions would not be a problem, citing testing since the 2009 guidelines came out, and equipment advancements (like the 750, etc.).  We'll obviously test, draw some conclusions, and learn more from the experience.

Not really much to post this week...running lots of harnesses, cable bundling, terminating ends, and working to get the first lexan panel cut.  We'll dry-fit to see if everything fits as originally planned, and if all fits well, get the metal one cut.  Hopefully some more "panel porn" after this Friday.

I like panel porn. It makes my gyros erect.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Thanks Anthony.  Out of admitted paranoia, I ran this by the Garmin Gurus, and it was confirmed the positions would not be a problem, citing testing since the 2009 guidelines came out, and equipment advancements (like the 750, etc.).  We'll obviously test, draw some conclusions, and learn more from the experience.

Not really much to post this week...running lots of harnesses, cable bundling, terminating ends, and working to get the first lexan panel cut.  We'll dry-fit to see if everything fits as originally planned, and if all fits well, get the metal one cut.  Hopefully some more "panel porn" after this Friday.

This thread is timely.  Yesterday a client of mine had a failure of his 530W antenna which knocked out the 430W antenna.  They are very close together.  Leaving the 530 off brought the 430 back, replacing the antenna solved the troubles....for now.

Clarence

[StevenL757]

Interesting - what aircraft type does your client own?  This sounds like a defective antenna caused the issue rather than an antenna proximity issue.  Garmin's Ovation test aircraft has flown thousands of approaches since 2008 with 4xxW, 5xxW, and GTN-series navigators using GA35 antennas mounted side-by-side less than 1 inch apart with no shadowing or loss-of-signal issues since 2008.  It sounds like a different scenario altogether, unless I'm missing something.  Will you update here as the repair/testing situation with your client plays out?

Rgds, Steve