Landing - flat nose wheel

[gsxrpilot]

I noticed something wasn't right the instant the nose wheel touched, so I picked it back up and held it off until I could get it slowed down. You'll see in the video when it touches. I didn't roll it far at all.

FinalFriday-KFWS.mp4

[clh]

yep,  had the same experience last Friday in MS..   Managed to keep it rolling until I got to the FBO.

 

 

[Cruiser]

You mean like this?

 

Flat_Tire_1.mov

[nels]

I did it last October. I think mine was caused by low air pressure combined with a strong cross wind landing. I was able to get back to the tie down and get out of the plane before it actually went flat. Was kind of tough pushing it back into the tie down  position.

How did you get your plane off the runway? I've been considering carrying a can of fix a flat as an emergency fix just to get the plane off the active.

[takair]

I've had it happen twice, both times I could not completely clear the runway.  Near impossible to move.  In both cases, the cause was a pinhole leak in the tube.  No indication of a problem prior to takeoff and flat after a relatively short flight.  In both cases, it occurred at KSAV where they have two runways and they had services.  I have often wondered what would happen at my current home airport, with one runway.  The can of fix-a-flat is a good idea.  It may be just the thing to get you clear of the runway.  I think I am going to add it to my hat rack junk.  With my luck the fix-a-flat will have gone flat when I need it....so may need to be an annual purchase.

[gsxrpilot]

This was the second nose wheel flat I've had. The other one was landing at KHOU. With Southwest on final behind me, I'm glad it didn't actually go flat until I was on the ramp.  This time it was flat as soon as I touched down. I was able to hold the nose off until I got slowed down and only rolled about 100 ft.  But I didn't even try to clear the runway. This field, KFWS, is class D with one paved and one grass runway. There was a Cessna in the pattern who side stepped to the grass runway.

The tower called the FBO to come out with a tug. The tug had a platform for the front wheel. They were able to pick up the front wheel and tow me to the ramp.

[rainman]

I had the same thing happened to me at Llano the first flight after a new tube had been placed at the annual. It turns out that the tube had gotten pinched on the side and blew out. The guys at the airport had a wheel dolly and towed me off and then they flew to another airport to get a new tube. No problems since.

[DXB]

Interesting- as an inexperienced pilot, I have not yet had my first flat.  Is it usually on the nose wheel and not the mains, as this thread would suggest?   I would imagine the latter might cause more of a directional control issue.

[kpaul]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

I would imagine the latter might cause more of a directional control issue.

Generally the nose causes more directional control problems.  At higher speeds the plane will actually steer in the opposite direction of rudder input due to the wheel turning one direction and the tire rolling off the rim and pulling the other way.  In fact in the F-16 a flat nose tire at high speed is grounds for ejecting due to the irregular turning tenancies of a flat nose. I actually witnessed one of those while I was still a crewchief working Vipers.  Pilot walked away with minimal injuries...the plane needed a bit of work.

I have never flown a plane that the POH recommends anything other than stopping straight ahead with a flat, limping one off the runway could lead to damage of the rim, brakes or gear doors.  

[DXB]

20 minutes ago, kpaul said:

Generally the nose causes more directional control problems.  At higher speeds the plane will actually steer in the opposite direction of rudder input due to the wheel turning one direction and the tire rolling off the rim and pulling the other way.  In fact in the F-16 a flat nose tire at high speed is grounds for ejecting due to the irregular turning tenancies of a flat nose. I actually witnessed one of those while I was still a crewchief working Vipers.  Pilot walked away with minimal injuries...the plane needed a bit of work.

I have never flown a plane that the POH recommends anything other than stopping straight ahead with a flat, limping one off the runway could lead to damage of the rim, brakes or gear doors.  

Interesting, thanks- my '68 POH likely predates any published SOPs on this topic for our planes - I'm curious what further guidance is available on this.

[gsxrpilot]

I'll tell you if it happens again, I'll do the very same thing.  Knowing how to perform a proper "soft field" landing by keeping the nose wheel in the air as long as possible is key to rolling on a flat the least possible distance. And once that wheel touches down, get on the breaks and get it stopped. I would hate to cause further damage to the gear doors, the wheel, the front gear assembly, or worse by trying to drive it off the runway. 

[jetdriven]

There is only a couple inches of prop ground clearance with a flat nose tire, so I'd be very concerned with stopping it smoothly on the runway and towing it afterwards. We also had a flat nose tire, 3 flight hours out of annual. We reused the tube, which we learned later was a mistake, since the tube stretches after the first use, and it will get small wrinkles in it upon reuse, which chafes and rubs through the tube. This time it trashed a 130$ brand new nose tire too.

[carusoam]

Byron,

3 hours after annual...  Or out from annual.

'Out of' annual may have too many meanings... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Cyril Gibb]

19 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

This was the second nose wheel flat I've had. The other one was landing at KHOU. With Southwest on final behind me, I'm glad it didn't actually go flat until I was on the ramp.  This time it was flat as soon as I touched down. I was able to hold the nose off until I got slowed down and only rolled about 100 ft.  But I didn't even try to clear the runway. This field, KFWS, is class D with one paved and one grass runway. There was a Cessna in the pattern who side stepped to the grass runway.

The tower called the FBO to come out with a tug. The tug had a platform for the front wheel. They were able to pick up the front wheel and tow me to the ramp.

I would have thought that two flats in one GA career is an awful lot of flats.  Were they related in some way, especially since it was the same wheel?  Foreign matter in the rim/tire wearing through the tube? Junk on the runway?  Did you determine the cause of each?

[Seth]

On March 27, 2016 at 9:03 PM, nels said:

I did it last October. I think mine was caused by low air pressure combined with a strong cross wind landing. I was able to get back to the tie down and get out of the plane before it actually went flat. Was kind of tough pushing it back into the tie down  position.

How did you get your plane off the runway? I've been considering carrying a can of fix a flat as an emergency fix just to get the plane off the active.

That's a good idea.  The tire is pretty much dead anyway so there's no harm to the rubber.

However, fix-o-flat is in a pressurized container and with all the "cycles" you may want to replace it every now and then so you don't end up with an explosion of goop in your cargo area at some point.

Keeping on at your home base is a good idea to get a flat off your home base runway.  At an away strip?  Not sure of the best idea.

 

-Seth

[DXB]

The loss of prop clearance sounds a little hair raising. But I'm fairly sure this flat tire problem will never happen to me...until I decide to land at a busy Class B airport - I'm sure no one will mind me blocking an active runway there 

[mike_elliott]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

There is only a couple inches of prop ground clearance with a flat nose tire, so I'd be very concerned with stopping it smoothly on the runway and towing it afterwards. We also had a flat nose tire, 3 flight hours out of annual. We reused the tube, which we learned later was a mistake, since the tube stretches after the first use, and it will get small wrinkles in it upon reuse, which chafes and rubs through the tube. This time it trashed a 130$ brand new nose tire too.

I learned that lesson the hard way also, Byron about 15 years ago. Fortunately, I found my new tire and used tube flat one morning when I went to the hanger to go fly, not on a landing going into Love field or Orlando Executive. New tubes are a whole lot cheaper than having to pay someone as you do the "tow of shame"

[1964-M20E]

been there done that.  Other than the cost I was at another airport and the local MX was there rather quickly and we change the tire on the  runway he didn't have a way to tow it with the tire off the ground.  I was on my way within an hour.

 

  good job.