M20F Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Some interesting facts in the video, but man they really need to get a new spokesman for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 AVWEB Consumer has a nice video on the Ultra roll-out. I thought the spokesperson did fine. Paul B. Had a nice article talking about the Ultra and Mooney. I especially liked the sentence discussing how that "old" air frame design just passed you going 25 knots faster". Paul gets Mooney. So do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbuck Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Pretty neat! I really like the second door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I wonder if they could have reskinned the wings in carbon sheets too? That would be much smoother and perhaps more speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Why isn't anyone asking about the structural compromise they had to make in the steel cage in order to accommodate the second door? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Why isn't anyone asking about the structural compromise they had to make in the steel cage in order to accommodate the second door? My guess is the cage, just like a race car, has been modified. But it is a good question. Wonder what they did to it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Left side must look a lot like a mirror image of the right side with extra tubes to maintain rigidity. There are some really good computer programs for that. Simulated stress, strain and harmonic vibrations over a variety of conditions. Design houses are pretty good for that kind of analysis. Since it is supposed to be a clean sheet design, have they changed the material, dimensions, and welding process of the tubes as well? Something with smaller diameters with more resistance to oxidation would be nice. just ideas off the top of my head. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 If the cage were made out of Ti that would be pretty neat. Maybe like one of my bike frames have it welded up by 12 year old unemployed Mig fighter workers in china, then ship over. Lighter than cromolly and no corrosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Yetti said: If the cage were made out of Ti that would be pretty neat. Maybe like one of my bike frames have it welded up by 12 year old unemployed Mig fighter workers in china, then ship over. Lighter than cromolly and no corrosion. Yeah - I have 3 Ti bikes - they are so non corrosive that they need no paint - even though you sweat salt onto them. That would be superb for an airplane - and save weight - and have better harmonic properties. Yes more expensive but heck - if I am paying 750k for an airplane why not ask for technology as good as my bicycle - I want Ti tubes..... did I say it never corrodes? Edited February 13, 2016 by aviatoreb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 http://www.loop.aero/the-app-magazine?wv=s%2FLOOP%2520Magazine%2Fa730e68c18a947d68cadb0a95babf7b9%2FLOOP%2520Issue%252035%2FCover_Folder.html see if this link works... Loop magazine it's in the App Store. One of our Euro Mooney friends shared this monthly magazine with us a while back... It has video advertisements including a tour of the TBM construction shop. See if anything TBM belongs in the new O and Acclaim. Lots of video screens... I was hoping to see a Mooney ad in there, maybe next month? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Philistines! Of course, I would prefer a paint job more in line with this gorgeous bird. Something about the way the bottom paint sweeps up the tail. Practically pornographic. I do, however, like the shaded windows with the black paint fill on the Ultra, gives that panoramic look to it. If I could afford one, I would own one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I need to add...Al would be pleased with where this is going. IMNSHO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Why isn't anyone asking about the structural compromise they had to make in the steel cage in order to accommodate the second door? Left side must look a lot like a mirror image of the right side with extra tubes to maintain rigidity. There are some really good computer programs for that. Simulated stress, strain and harmonic vibrations over a variety of conditions. Design houses are pretty good for that kind of analysis. Since it is supposed to be a clean sheet design, have they changed the material, dimensions, and welding process of the tubes as well? Something with smaller diameters with more resistance to oxidation would be nice. just ideas off the top of my head. Best regards, -a- This video shows the cage. They modified it to accommodate the second door. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 They should also using Ti in the landing gear and the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful_Charlie Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Well done Mooney for getting this together, and I really am glad to see it, but can't help thinking they've missed a trick. 1000lbs of payload just isn't enough for a go-places four seater, and a long-body isn't the best choice for half hour round the block flights. Stick four FAA standard 200 lbs fleshy things in there, lose (an optimistic) 50 lbs for fuel reserves, and that leaves a measly 150lbs for trip fuel and baggage. You can get away with telling some friends that they're only allowed to pack a toothbrush and one pair of undercrackers for baggage, but even for me that's stretching it for a week away. That assumes you actually get your new bird with 1000lbs usable though - if you need FIKI or aircon I suspect the figure is going to be lower, meaning you are constrained to hops of an hour to get anywhere, and at that rate even a car starts to look attractive. The competition which is selling has a useful load of 1150-1300lbs, and they accomplished this on the last update by adding a gross weight increase, but I do wonder how much Mooney looked at what could be improved, for instance That big lump on lead on the elevator controls under the panel - there's 2 lbs that could probably be replaced by a spring for a fraction of the weight How about a deal with a composite prop, Skytec, Plane Power to get weight off the front end - there's an easy 20-30 lbs by changing accessories/supplier All those bellcranks and pivots under the floor - all made in steel, and probably ripe for replacement in something else Charlie weights in the tail to get the CofG acceptable - how about a couple of battery box positions instead (and even move the access panels back to match) The long steel control tubes are also screaming for something lighter, and the trim system could be cable without a loss of control feel Whilst I'm having a bitch about things I've found the hard way on a Bravo, I hope they've got rid of that infernal lower cowl fastener directly above the nosewheel that requires a special screwdriver just for that one fastener - decreasing the fastener count by one and moving the two either side of it closer together would make the job of removing or replacing the lower cowl noticeably easier Don't get me wrong - I think it's great that Mooney is moving back into production, but the competition has moved on, and the product needs to be competitive with what else is out there in the sub $1M four seater market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 10 hours ago, aviatoreb said: Yeah - I have 3 Ti bikes - they are so non corrosive that they need no paint - even though you sweat salt onto them. That would be superb for an airplane - and save weight - and have better harmonic properties. Yes more expensive but heck - if I am paying 750k for an airplane why not ask for technology as good as my bicycle - I want Ti tubes..... did I say it never corrodes? Steel is real... until it anit. As you can imagine large furry creatures need custom frames. I have a china mtn bike Ti and a Steamboat springs CX bike. The way the Moots people tuned the frame was interesting. They put a very large downtube on it. I would think there would be lots of tuning of the Mooney cage that could be done with Ti. Using some larger dia tubing in the right places you could probably make it even stronger and lighter at the same time. Maybe expensive as all get out to fix, but they should probably add a cromolly sacrificial skid pad for the gear up the mtn bike gets covered in limestone dust then highly corrosive yetti sweat gets mixed in. The al water bottle cages I just took off had intergranual corrosion on them. The Ti frame I just wiped down with some silicone. Makes me want to build a Ti Frame BearHawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 33 minutes ago, Yetti said: Steel is real... until it anit. As you can imagine large furry creatures need custom frames. I have a china mtn bike Ti and a Steamboat springs CX bike. The way the Moots people tuned the frame was interesting. They put a very large downtube on it. I would think there would be lots of tuning of the Mooney cage that could be done with Ti. Using some larger dia tubing in the right places you could probably make it even stronger and lighter at the same time. Maybe expensive as all get out to fix, but they should probably add a cromolly sacrificial skid pad for the gear up the mtn bike gets covered in limestone dust then highly corrosive yetti sweat gets mixed in. The al water bottle cages I just took off had intergranual corrosion on them. The Ti frame I just wiped down with some silicone. Makes me want to build a Ti Frame BearHawk Exactly - Ti is real. I dream of an all Ti mooney covered in carbon skins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 It looks like Mooney is in the small "other" group in what is world wide a small and decreasing pie, according to this Gama report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Market share doesn't necessarily mean the best airplane and don't forget Mooney is just getting started again I think their future looks bright I'm sure that Porsche, Ferrari Maserati Aston Martin would all be grouped as OTHER if you looked at the stats for auto sales. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 14 minutes ago, bonal said: Market share doesn't necessarily mean the best airplane and don't forget Mooney is just getting started again I think their future looks bright I'm sure that Porsche, Ferrari Maserati Aston Martin would all be grouped as OTHER if you looked at the stats for auto sales. Quite right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted February 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 2 hours ago, bonal said: Market share doesn't necessarily mean the best airplane and don't forget Mooney is just getting started again I think their future looks bright I'm sure that Porsche, Ferrari Maserati Aston Martin would all be grouped as OTHER if you looked at the stats for auto sales. Indeed. I'll point out that Porsche was on the rocks a few years ago and then unveiled the Boxster. I frankly think things are looking very good. It is very easy to engineer, manage and market a product from behind a laptop computer screen while reclined in an easy chair. The modification, production and sale of a certified aircraft is of a complexity not to be believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 22 minutes ago, HRM said: Indeed. I'll point out that Porsche was on the rocks a few years ago and then unveiled the Boxster. I frankly think things are looking very good. It is very easy to engineer, manage and market a product from behind a laptop computer screen while reclined in an easy chair. The modification, production and sale of a certified aircraft is of a complexity not to be believed. The Boxster absolutely saved the company. Funny that now they're stuck underpowering the mid-engines cars to keep the 911 at its price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Certification costs lots of money, obscene amounts of money Any change to the Type Certificate requires certification The more you change, the higher the cost, exponentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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