Oil from prop

[craftyboy]

Hi All,  I need some advice about our Mooney prop. After last nights flight from Florence to Hartford I noticed oil on the blades and cowl (pictures attached).  We fly this plane quite a bit, and really love it.  Its a 1990 20J with a Hartzell (HC-C3YR-IRF) 3 blade.  It has 1500 hrs since install in 2001.  Anyone know of a fair prop shop to work with?  We are in Hartford, CT.     Thanks,  Ed

 

 

 

Oil on Blade1

 

 

 

 

Oil on Blade2

 

 

Oil On cowl.

 

 

 

Oil on Blade3

 

 

 

Oil on cowl.

Edited January 17, 2016 by craftyboy
edit pictures

[jetdriven]

What are all those chord wise scratches on the blade roots from? R&R of lower cowling?

[Marauder]

Hi All,  I need some advice about our Mooney prop. After last nights flight from Florence to Hartford I noticed oil on the blades and cowl (pictures attached).  We fly this plane quite a bit, and really love it.  Its a 1990 20J with a Hartzell (HC-C3YR-IRF) 3 blade.  It has 1500 hrs since install in 2001.  Anyone know of a fair prop shop to work with?  We are in Hartford, CT.     Thanks,  Ed

 

 

 

Oil on Blade1

 

 

 

 

Oil on Blade2

 

 

Oil On cowl.

 

 

 

Oil on Blade3

 

 

 

Oil on cowl.

I've used the prop shop at KLNS with good results.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jackn]

Sensenich Propeller Services 

Willimantic,CT

(860)456-7944

[Yetti]

You may want to see if the seal on front of the engine has let go.  The seal is glued in with industrial contact cement.   Finger in around the shaft between the prop.  Probably have to have the cowl off.  Move the prop slightly see if the rubber seal moves.  Moving blades, engine could start, you could get hurt.  YMMV.

[N33GG]

+1 Check front main seal on engine/prop shaft.  It may be prop blade seal, but the oil pattern looks unusual to me.  Good A&P could quickly determine where it is coming from. May not be prop at all.

Good luck!

[Tony Armour]

Sometimes seals and cold weather don't agree. Clean it and see if it repeats. I have seen it happen once and then go away.

[Ratherbflying]

5 hours ago, Tony Armour said:

Sometimes seals and cold weather don't agree. Clean it and see if it repeats. I have seen it happen once and then go away.

+1

That's probably grease, not oil.

[N201MKTurbo]

On the McCauley props, when the piston dome or seal get worn, they can fill the hub with pressurized oil. This oil will force its way through the blade bearings and seals. Unless you find an oil leak somewhere else the prop needs a repair. By the looks of the blades, it is probably due for an overhaul. 3.5 AMUs

[craftyboy]

Thanks guys.  Sounds like the worst case is 3.5 AMUs.  I thought an Overhaul was more than that, no?    I'll keep you posted.   Ed

PS..  those chord wise scratches on the blade roots were there before we owned the plane.  I assume they got there from cowl removal.

[jetdriven]

dont overhaul it if you can help it, they grind the blades to limits and often it wont clean up before it goes past limits, then your 3500$ epair goes to a 8000$ overhaul when a new prop is a few hundred more. 
Teardown, refinish, and reseal.  San Antonio Propeller, for example, does a 2 blade McCauley for 650$

[Bob_Belville]

When I had a prop strike in MA a couple of years ago New England Prop near you in CN did a good and timely job.

[craftyboy]

Going in the local shop next Monday for assessment. 

[jetdriven]

Most prop shops never met a prop that didnt need an overhaul.  Then grind past limits and sell you a new one.

[HRM]

Some thoughts:

• How important is the prop to a single-engine aircraft? This should guide your decision time on action.
• The value of an honest prop-shop cannot be overestimated. Period. Find one, expend what is necessary to do so.
• Not only honest, but knowledge of your prop model and manufacturer. Don't fly alone.

[jetdriven]

How do you find an honest prop shop? Is there a prop shop Yelp?

  Some members here have had them call back after they grind ".002" into the blades, just to scrap them. By the time you find out there's trouble, its already done with and you cant recover. Its like the vet calling to tell you your dog has died. And oh BTW here's a bill only for a grand so far.

Edited January 19, 2016 by jetdriven

[Shadrach]

23 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

How do you find an honest prop shop? Is there a prop shop Yelp?

  Some members here have had them call back after they grind ".002" into the blades, just to scrap them. By the time you find out there's trouble, its already done with and you cant recover. Its like the vet calling to tell you your dog has died. And oh BTW here's a bill only for a grand so far.

East Coast Propellor in Lititz PA  did my last OH 9 years ago. They told me then that there was plenty of meat left for another OH.

http://www.localaviation.net/Pennsylvania/Eastcoast-Propeller-Service-Incorporated-7331.html

Thst being said, that looks like a from the crank seal or perhaps the crank flange. If there was that much oil coming out at the shanks, the face of the prop would be completely covered.

[Cody Stallings]

$3500 AMU for O/H? Holy Crap!!!!!!!

Thats more of a $2650 kinda deal in my shop for O/H

With the blades that are in that Hub(F7282), you wanna keep the grinding to a minimums if you can. The tips are very thin, opt for a Reseal, Dress, Paint an balance if possible

Just my opinion.

[Guitarmaster]

Good to see you are still lurking here Cody!

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[Cody Stallings]

I have to Check in from time to time. Make sure you guys are still playing nice together.

Your propeller still doing good Matt?

[craftyboy]

Update:   Local shop said its not the prop leaking.  They found oil coming out of 1 or 2 bolts holding the crankcase together.  The bolts/washers and lockwashers were reversed according to the shop. I believe they reinstalled the bolts with proper washers and added sealant. They also found that the oil separator did not have the required vent hole. They think that pressure built up forcing oil out of those 2 boltholes. They cleaned the engine and prop and sent us on our way.   So far no leaks after 3 hrs flying.   

[garytex]

Sounds like a good sharp mechanic to me. Take that one a bottle of whiskey.

[HRM]

12 hours ago, craftyboy said:

Update:   Local shop said its not the prop leaking.  They found oil coming out of 1 or 2 bolts holding the crankcase together.  The bolts/washers and lockwashers were reversed according to the shop. I believe they reinstalled the bolts with proper washers and added sealant. They also found that the oil separator did not have the required vent hole. They think that pressure built up forcing oil out of those 2 boltholes. They cleaned the engine and prop and sent us on our way.   So far no leaks after 3 hrs flying.   

Local prop shop? I ask because this discussion started on the assumption that the prop was leaking and you needed prop specific work.

The question now is: who reversed the hardware (well, reassembled wrong)? Could have been disastrous since the phrase 'pressure build up' wrt the oil system appears.

A good takeaway from it all is that you now know a place with very sharp and knowledgeable mechanics. I will wager they looked at the issue and were perplexed, then homed in on the crankcase hardware and oil separator based on deep systems knowledge because something 'just wasn't right.' 

Was it a group or a single A&P?

[MB65E]

The Lycoming IPC and various pictures from Lycoming can determine what way the forward case bolts go. I have used sealant and Stat-o-seals in some of the hardware up there. It helps. Just be sure everything is torqued up nicely iaw the overhaul manual. The forward case moves around  more than you think. A dynamic balance will reduce some vibration.

Glad you found the leak.

-Matt