Mooney Aerobatics

[Guest]

A side hinge canopy on an RV does not mean it won't leave the airplane whether planned or not, I know first hand.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, Pirate said:

I'm currently building a slider tail wheel 7. I have modified the canopy with two pins replacing the bolts at the front slides if I would decide to let the canopy go inflight and also for    easier removal for maint. The only problem as mentioned on VAF is that if released its highly likely to strike the tail.

The RV 9 does have a quick disconnect for the canopy, generally at the top of the panel.

 

If you're out of your harness and ready to separate from the aircraft, what does it matter? Have there been cases where a tail strike prevented the pilot from leaving the aircraft?

[Jeff_S]

I'd like to address this with a question from a different angle...what it's really like to jump from a failing aircraft while it's tumbling. As hard as it is to get into some of these planes (I did a brief stint of aerobatic training in a Super Decathlon, with one door for both passengers) I am curious just how hard it is to undo everything and get out while the airplane is in some obviously uncontrolled flight attitude. Seems like it would be a real challenge, although one no doubt that provides great motivation. Has anyone on this forum ever actually had to bail out of an enclosed-cockpit GA airplane? Can you describe the experience?

[steingar]

10 hours ago, M20Doc said:

A side hinge canopy on an RV does not mean it won't leave the airplane whether planned or not, I know first hand.

Clarence

Sounds like a damn interesting story.

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, M20Doc said:

A side hinge canopy on an RV does not mean it won't leave the airplane whether planned or not, I know first hand.

Clarence

Yes, do tell!

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

I'd like to address this with a question from a different angle...what it's really like to jump from a failing aircraft while it's tumbling. As hard as it is to get into some of these planes (I did a brief stint of aerobatic training in a Super Decathlon, with one door for both passengers) I am curious just how hard it is to undo everything and get out while the airplane is in some obviously uncontrolled flight attitude. Seems like it would be a real challenge, although one no doubt that provides great motivation. Has anyone on this forum ever actually had to bail out of an enclosed-cockpit GA airplane? Can you describe the experience?

My FIL has a Super D and he states during every pre-aerobatic fight spiel that no rear seat occupant has ever successfully exited a Decathlon in flight during an emergency and that if there is a problem, he intends to be the first.

In all honesty, I'm sure that some would react well and others not so well. I will say that flying aerobatics on occasion has made me far more comfortable dealing with unusual attitudes. If you've intentionally entered and exited an inverted spin before, than finding yourself there inadvertently is not so paralyzing. If I needed to get out of the plane, I think that the Hooker 5 point I am familiar with would be no problem to get out of; it pretty much falls away from the body with a single lever pull. The door on the decathlon would fall away with a single pull

There was a thread earlier this year about a Mooney entering an inadvertent spin with two pilots on board (both partners in the aircraft). The left seat pilot froze, forcing the right seat pilot had to initiate the recovery. IIRC several folks on this board expressed surprise and disappointment that the pilot flying froze. I was not surprised at all. How could someone who's never ben in a spin be expected to react quickly and correctly? We are taught to be conservative in our flying which is good. We must remember that it is also good to expand and explore our comfort zones under controlled circumstances...it's pretty much the only way to become more capable.

[Shadrach]

5 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Agreed, Ross.  Same experience here.  I wonder sometimes, though, what it would be like to have all of that crap that is on the floor of my baggage compartment of my Mooney flying around the cockpit during a significant negative g upset.  That could be pretty distracting.  One of these days I keep thinking I will get around to installing some floor straps and getting that stuff property secured.

I replaced my straps when I did the carpet a few years ago.  The F came stock with floor bolted webbing. I replaced it with longer and heavier duty stuff. Did your J come with straps or provisions for straps?

[carusoam]

The C's straps were natural fiber. They went in the garage when the new carpet was fit...

The R's are nylon and were bundled with a nice rubber band.  15 years later they need new rubber bands....

Shared memories,

-a-

[Shadrach]

3 minutes ago, carusoam said:

The C's straps were natural fiber. They went in the garage when the new carpet was fit...

The R's are nylon and were bundled with a nice rubber band.  15 years later they need new rubber bands....

Shared memories,

-a-

My originals may be natural fiber as well.  Whatever they are, they never dry rotted. They're still hanging on my hangar peg board perfectly intact.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Yes, do tell!

Here it is safely on the ground after the canopy decided it no longer wanted to remain as part of a nice plane.  I'd just taken off and came around to do a low good bye pass, on the pull up through about 5-600 the canopy departed.  

I came around and landed back where I started, I found the canopy in a field the next day.  I found a mark on the right side of the fuselage where the canopy skirt dented the skin, the canopy passed over the wing but under the horizontal stabilizer.  Lucky for me it cleared everything.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

30 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Here it is safely on the ground after the canopy decided it no longer wanted to remain as part of a nice plane.  I'd just taken off and came around to do a low good bye pass, on the pull up through about 5-600 the canopy departed.  

I came around and landed back where I started, I found the canopy in a field the next day.  I found a mark on the right side of the fuselage where the canopy skirt dented the skin, the canopy passed over the wing but under the horizontal stabilizer.  Lucky for me it cleared everything.

Clarence

Lucky indeed. Any idea what failed and why? Where you the builder?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Lucky indeed. Any idea what failed and why? Where you the builder?

Yes I built the plane and never installed the Vans secondary latch as there was no way to release it from the outside of the plane.  My take off from the field was from a very rough portion of the runway, I believe that the latch moved as the canopy flexed a bit.

On the pull up after the low pass my canopy warning light came on, before I could re set the handle the canopy was gone.  

The plane flew poorly because of the disturbed airflow over the tail, I think.

Clarence

[stevesm20b]

No one has talked about the gyros when doing aerobatics. Unless you have caged gyros you risk having an expensive repair bill after the

maneuvers.

[cliffy]

I've been told by a very reliable source that years ago Lear 24s could be rolled while one is kneeling between and just behind the pilot seats and never really feel a G load change as the horizon goes around its circle. 

And, few years ago, one was doing an aerobatic routine at air shows with smoke even!

 

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, stevesm20b said:

No one has talked about the gyros when doing aerobatics. Unless you have caged gyros you risk having an expensive repair bill after the

maneuvers.

It takes many, many maneuvers to significantly affect accuracy of an attitude indicator. It's hard on them for sure, but one roll or loop is not going to force a trip to the avionics shop.

[Shadrach]

21 minutes ago, cliffy said:

I've been told by a very reliable source that years ago Lear 24s could be rolled while one is kneeling between and just behind the pilot seats and never really feel a G load change as the horizon goes around its circle. 

And, few years ago, one was doing an aerobatic routine at air shows with smoke even!

 

Any B-jet (or airplane) can be rolled; YouTube is full of the evidence. One of our local "Aces of the base" claims to have rolled every aircraft he ever flew. He said climbing rolls can be made from level flight in most of the B-jets. He was also rumored to demonstrate "energy management" in twins by shutting down an engine and rolling around the live engine...still quite a good stick well into his 80s...old and bold.