Right Seat Brakes

[CaptGMoore]

I am currently in consideration of purchasing a M20C, or M20F and will be looking to use the airplane for my CFI training and FAA Checkride.   I am interested to know if any of you know the cost, and process to add brakes to the right seat of these M20C or M20F models.   Are there any maintenance shops that might have familiarity or experience with this STC modification?  I would appreciate any information on whether or not this modification is possible and at what other considerations would I need to know.   Thanks for the help

[N601RX]

I added them to my F model 4 years ago.  There is no STC to do this.  It is a Mooney supplied upgrade kit that is already part of the type cert and just.requires a log book entry.  I was able to find used parts for around $400. At the time a new kit was unavailable, but the cost was around $3K when available.  They are a little time consuming to install, bending and routing all the lines.  If you want to see the drawings and what is involved I have an electronic copy I can email to you.

[CaptGMoore]

Thanks for the quick response regarding the possibility of adding the right seat brakes.   Yes I would appreciate it if you can email me that information. 

Send to captgmoore@aol.com

[N601RX]

Check your email, you should have them.

[carl]

you are going to teach ifr training in your plane  and you are the cfi

do i have that right? 

[Hank]

I trained for and took my Instrument checkride in my C with only left brakes. But I understand why flying in the right seat for CFI that you want brakes. But I can't imagine teaching a primary student in a Mooney, unless it belongs to the student.

Good luck!

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Captain G,

If you update your data next to your avatar, people can give you advice regarding places local to you and your plane. A city or state would be helpful.

While looking for a plane, you may be looking for a place to do a PPI. (Normal procedure when buying a used aircraft)

Places that are expected to be able to handle putting brakes on the right side are called MSCs.  A list of these service centers can be found on Mooney's website.  People that are more mechanically inclined can obtain used parts.

As Mike (601X) points out above the parts are a standard for Mooneys so no additional STC is required.  So few of the early planes ever got the right side brakes.  Landing with proper speed control you will only use them lightly.

Are you getting trained yourself and only need the copilot brake setup for the FAA check ride?  Or are you looking to train other people to fly in your Mooney? You can look how people have handled this in the past using the search box at the top.  Once you are a qualified private pilot, people trust that you know how to use the brakes.  You can do this before even leaving the tie-down.

There is the rental path for the check ride where the FAA guy insists on having a set of brakes.

Ideas that come to mind, sorry if I missed something.

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, N601RX said:

I added them to my F model 4 years ago.  There is no STC to do this.  It is a Mooney supplied upgrade kit that is already part of the type cert and just.requires a log book entry.  I was able to find used parts for around $400. At the time a new kit was unavailable, but the cost was around $3K when available.  They are a little time consuming to install, bending and routing all the lines.  If you want to see the drawings and what is involved I have an electronic copy I can email to you.

I did the same thing.  In fact I bought the parts from N601RX. It was around 800-1000$ for parts and about 2 days of my labor, supervised.  I'd guess 1500$ in labor to have it done.  

[CaptGMoore]

Thanks for the information, answers, and feedback!   I am new to Mooneyspace, and am in need of learning how to post, respond, etc., so please bare with me as I try to figure it all out.   First - Thanks for the feedback that several of you have already provide. 

In answer to a few of the questions regarding the CFI as it relates to having or desiring right seat brakes, I am a commercial airline pilot, and also an active and certified general aviation instructor.   I'm not planning on using the Mooney (once we have one selected and purchased one) for instructing other pilots.   This would not be a leaseback airplane.  The airplane would be my personal airplane, and I would normally fly it from the left seat.   I do have 3-boys including a 20 year old son who currently holds a commercial pilot license with instrument ratings.   He is the one who is working on his CFI certificate, and in hopes that we could add right seat brakes.  If we could equip the airplane with right seat brakes, it would allow him to do some Solo Flying from the right seat while he is practicing for his CFI certificate. 

My Son, is the only one that I would consider instructing in this type of airplane.  With him working on his CFI,  I would be sitting in the left seat while he was in the right seat.   There would be no issues or problems with this arrangement.   The lack of right seat brakes limits his ability to fly Solo from the right seat.  Neither he nor I, would be planning on using our airplane to train anyone else.  This would be a primary airplane for our use and enjoyment.      

I'm not sure if the effort and expense is necessary or required, but it could be a more comfortable feeling for those few situations when I might find myself sitting in the right seat knowing that I'm ultimately the one responsible for the final outcome.  The bottom line, is that in all of my experience with general aviation and airline flying there are very few airplanes that I've ever flown or operated that did not have brakes on the right side.    I guess this is my inexperience, lack of knowledge and general comfort that causes me to ask the question.   Once again, I appreciate the feedback from all of you.      

[carusoam]

Additional logic...

Older Mooneys didn't get the right seat brakes.  They cost money, add weight and get used infrequently...

Long Body Mooneys are full up with many quirky things like electric rudder trim, electric elevator trim, motorized flaps and gear, vertical seat adjustments and they added copilot side brakes.

Go long body, sell some shares to the kids.

One nice dad let his son use the family Ovation to be the youngest person to fly around the world...

http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/34273-mooney-ambassador-founder-mitch-latting-greet-jack-wiegand-after-his-round-the-world-trip-in-an-ovation/

Thinking out loud,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

I think that once you talk to your insurance company, especially if your son has a low number of dual given hours, you'll change your mind about training pilots in your plane.

 

-Robert

[fantom]

^^^ True, and right side brakes are quirky, both in my experience, and according to DMax.

Unless you wind up with a long body, it will be great training to land and slow to a crawl without using brakes. You do have 3,000 ft, don't you? 

[M20F]

6 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I think that once you talk to your insurance company, especially if your son has a low number of dual given hours, you'll change your mind about training pilots in your plane.

 

-Robert

He clearly says neither he nor his son are considering training anyone else in the airplane and the need is solely so his son can practice solo in the right seat. 

[jetdriven]

May be cheaper to find a pilot rated buddy to use the brakes before turning off the runway. 

[RobertGary1]

On November 20, 2015 at 6:45:02 PM, jetdriven said:

May be cheaper to find a pilot rated buddy to use the brakes before turning off the runway. 

My broker just had me send a letter to the underwriters putting them on notice I was doing that. Otherwise they'll typically assume you let your buddy fly the plane. 

- Robert

[peevee]

Seems like a lot of money to spend for a short window of use. Shouldn't be hard to find someone to ride left seat for him to practice. One of the other owners on our plane did just that. 

[charlesual]

Welcome aboard Gary,

So glad you're tapped in. You've embarked on an incredible journey with finding, operating and maintaining a really awesome dream. You're going to find mooneyspace to be a really great resource. Don't hesitate to ask questions just like you did on any number of subjects. You'll be amazed how smart and resourceful these guys (and gals) are.

Welcome aboard Captain.

Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Capt ONEAL]

On 11/18/2015 at 5:31 PM, N601RX said:

I added them to my F model 4 years ago.  There is no STC to do this.  It is a Mooney supplied upgrade kit that is already part of the type cert and just.requires a log book entry.  I was able to find used parts for around $400. At the time a new kit was unavailable, but the cost was around $3K when available.  They are a little time consuming to install, bending and routing all the lines.  If you want to see the drawings and what is involved I have an electronic copy I can email to you.

Hello, im currently working on a MOONEYM20C and the owner want to make some navigation hours with a friend (already private pilot). He request me if it is possible to add the brakes on the right side. It will be so helpfull if you can send me the drawings and make the loog book entry. Also, im from Venezuela, so please excuse me for the bad languaje. Isnt my first languaje.

If you deside to share your drawings with me (hope you do) this is my email information: oscargrm1989@gmail.com

Regars guys. Have a nice day

 

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Capt ONEAL said:

Hello, im currently working on a MOONEYM20C and the owner want to make some navigation hours with a friend (already private pilot). He request me if it is possible to add the brakes on the right side. It will be so helpfull if you can send me the drawings and make the loog book entry. Also, im from Venezuela, so please excuse me for the bad languaje. Isnt my first languaje.

If you deside to share your drawings with me (hope you do) this is my email information: oscargrm1989@gmail.com

Regars guys. Have a nice day

 

The logbook entry must be made by the licensed airplane mechanic who installs the right side brakes, according to the aviation laws of Venezuela.

I did all of my Instrument training in my M20-C, and took my Instrument checkride in it, with no right side brakes.

Good luck with your project!

[RobertGary1]

I did my cfi ratings in my Mooney. No brakes required. On short field landings you just say “brakes” to the examiner. 

-Robert 

[carusoam]

Oscar,

You May find the neccesary drawings in two manuals... parts and maintenance manuals for your plane.

 

See if the download section here has these documents... somebody has posted them before...

As for a place to find parts...

@acpartswhse has the most Mooney parts around...

For new parts from Mooney,  go to Lasar.com...

As people have pointed out already... brakes on the copilot side are not very useful if the pilot in the left seat is already familiar with planes... 

confusion and short runways could be a challenge...

private pilot thoughts only not a CFI or mechanic...

Post some pics from your part of the Mooney world...  

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry Pressley]

have a 65c with them. parting  423 231 3491   jerry pressley

[CaptGMoore]

The email I tried to use is apparently incorrect. I was going to share the information I received 3-years ago. I have some technical drawings that were helpful when my mechanic installed right seat brakes in my 1969 M20F.

Send me your corrected email and I can forward the information on to you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mcstealth]

On October 10, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Capt ONEAL said:

Hello, im currently working on a MOONEYM20C and the owner want to make some navigation hours with a friend (already private pilot). He request me if it is possible to add the brakes on the right side. It will be so helpfull if you can send me the drawings and make the loog book entry. Also, im from Venezuela, so please excuse me for the bad languaje. Isnt my first languaje.

If you deside to share your drawings with me (hope you do) this is my email information: oscargrm1989@gmail.com

Regars guys. Have a nice day

 

Welcome to the forums captain O. Please post a hello on the main page and introduce yourself. Fill out your profile, you known, the what', where ,  when, why, how.....

thanks for finding the bestest Mooney page EVER!

DF

[Capt ONEAL]

On 10/12/2018 at 5:41 PM, CaptGMoore said:

The email I tried to use is apparently incorrect. I was going to share the information I received 3-years ago. I have some technical drawings that were helpful when my mechanic installed right seat brakes in my 1969 M20F.

Send me your corrected email and I can forward the information on to you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hello Cap Moore,

Im checking the e-mail adress and its correct: 

oscargrm1989@gmail.com

Let me add another email adress: oscar_grm@hotmail.com

I think you can attach files on these website if the email adress wont work.

thank you so much for your help Cap. Im very greatful to you.

Im still waiting for a solution, the airplane for internal regulations MUST have dual brake systems. I know that seems a litle funny, but  these rules needs to be follow. Thats why im trying to get help from you guys. Im going to attach some photos from the airplane very soon.

 

Again, I apologize for the bad languaje.